Spellcasters are great, and do a lot to reshape a matchup. They can reach behind enemy lines to snipe out or neutralise key targets, influence objectives, or cripple battlelines. Most of all though, they shut down enemy heroes. And it is in this role– which is the primary one for most spellcasters– that they get a huge amount of value out of having a second caster to back them up.
This article will start by breaking down spellcasters by how
much they care about having magical support, then work through an example of
this impact, before diving into what’s going on behind the scenes to create
that difference. And at the end of it, we’ll be left with the overall
conclusion that…
Your Witch King needs a friend.
Which spellcasters?
Spells can be broken down into three categories, depending largely on how often your opponent will be making a Resist roll against them. This distinction matters because overwhelming your opponent’s capacity to Resist spells is why we want a second caster.
Irresistible spells are our first category, and these
are ones that affect your own models or the caster themselves, like Aura of
Dismay, Renew, or Fury. These spells never directly target an enemy model, and
so the enemy doesn’t get to roll to Resist them. As such, spellcasters relying
on these spells don’t really need a spellcasting buddy to go with them.
Círdan doesn’t rely on Gandalf Blasting enemy heroes in order to cast his 4
buffing spells, after all. These spellcasters do still appreciate a second caster
in order to help out in magical duels, but there isn’t much direct synergy
there.
Flexible spells are those which can be cast on
enemy heroes (and sometimes want to be), but which can be effective when
targeting troops as well. A classic example is Nature’s Wrath. If your opponent
has heaps of Will to Resist , then you might deliberately cast in a spot
where you’re affecting enemy warriors but not their heroes. However, if you did
have another caster whittling down enemy Will stores, then you could be more
aggressive about it to try and bowl down the enemy heroes too.
Other examples of flexible spells include Sorcerous Blast or
Black Dart, which are great at dismounting heroes without directly targeting
them (either by Blasting someone into them or by just targeting the mount), but
gain added flexibility if the enemy heroes are out of Will and can be targeted
directly. Compel is a borderline example, with a myriad of good uses against
enemy warriors but even more uses against enemy heroes.
Finally, Resistible spells are the ones that really do
have to target enemy heroes or monsters to get their full value. There are
heaps of these, from Transfix to Paralyse, Wither to Shatter, Drain Courage to
Sap Will. These spells almost always need to be aimed at enemy combat pieces to
be effective, so your opponent will generally have Will and Might to Resist
with. As such, it’s spellcasters relying on these spells that want a
spellcasting buddy backing them up. And it’s these spellcasters that we’ll be focussing
on today, such that it’s probably safe to assume that most references to
casters are in fact references to casters relying on resistible spells.
Two hypothetical examples: Elessar v
the Witch King
In these two examples, we’re lining up the King of Gondor
himself against the Witch King of Angmar. Elessar is smashing into the Mordor lines
(as he does) and the Witch King is trying to Transfix him (as he does).
I’ve played this matchup a surprising number of times, and in my experience it often
goes something like this:
Turn 1: Elessar charges in, and
Resists the Witch King’s Transfix on two dice, getting a natural six to get one
back. Elessar then kills 3-4 models.
Turn 2: The Witch King casts on
Elessar and rolls fairly low, and Elessar Resists on 1 die, before killing 3-4
warriors.
Turn 3: The Witch King casts on Elessar and he
burns his last Will and a couple Might to Resist, before killing 3-4 warriors.
Turn 4: Elessar is now out of
Will, and will be Transfixed every turn from here on out. However, he has
killed 9-12 Mordor warriors, and Gondor may be able to clean up from here
without him.
Obviously this is just a hypothetical, and any number of
factors about this situation could be adjusted. But I think experienced players
will agree that it’s broadly reflective of what happens when a ‘standard’ 3
Will combat hero comes up against a single enemy caster with lots of Will. They
get in 2-4 turns of combat before the Will stocks run dry and they are taken
out of action.
Now, let’s change it up. Elessar is now facing the Witch
King and the Mouth, both of which will be trying to Transfix him every
turn. We’re assuming similar dice rolls to last time, just with the second
caster added in.
Turn 1: Elessar charges in, and
Resists the Witch King’s Transfix on two dice, getting a natural six to get one
back. The Mouth then casts on Elessar and rolls fairly low, and Elessar Resists
on 1 die. Elessar then kills 3-4 models.
Turn 2: The Witch King casts on
Elessar and he rolls his last Will, and again would need to burn some Might to
Resist. However, he now knows that the Mouth is lurking, and if he burns Might
to Resist the Witch King he’ll still get Transfixed by the Mouth. As such, he
probably saves the Might and is Transfixed.
Turn 3: Elessar is now out of
Will, and will be Transfixed every turn from here on out. He has killed only
3-4 warriors, and it is unlikely that his troops will be able to make up for the
missing hitting power.
Now, as discussed above, this is only a hypothetical, and
real experiences would differ from this in both directions. But again, I think
this is broadly reflective of how this matchup and ones like it tend to go. Facing
a second caster, the hero’s Will stores get rapidly overwhelmed and they are
taken out of the game after one big turn. For an example of exactly this, see
game 2 of this recent tournament report.
This shows what tends to happen with fairly ‘average’ dice
in this matchup, and the impact of the second caster here is devastating.
Aragorn goes from 3 turns of combat down to 1, and the matchup swings from ‘competitive’
to ‘skewed’. Noticeably, the two casters were effectively 3 times as impactful as a single caster, rather than twice as impactful (as we might have expected).
And that’s despite the fact that in this example the Mouth only cast a
single spell.
So what lead to this dramatic improvement in effectiveness,
and why were the two casters combined so much more than the sum of their parts?
It’s an important question, with a few different answers.
Why is the second spellcaster so
good?
Firstly, having a second spellcaster increases the tempo of the magical battle. When a spellcaster with lots of Will is casting on a hero with limited Will (and no Resistant to Magic or Fortify Spirit), the magical duel ends up as an exchange of resources. The caster is attempting to exchange their Will points for those of the targetat a more-or-less efficient rate, in order to get to the glorious endgame where the target is out of Will and can be Transfixed/Paralysed/Compelled on cue. With one spellcaster, the rate at which you can trade your resources for theirs is capped by the fact that you can only cast once per turn. With two spellcasters you not only have more Will to burn, but you can make that trade twice as fast. In effect, having a second spellcaster means you get to the ‘mercilessly picking on the Will-depleted hero’ stage at least twice as fast. In our example above, Aragorn had to Resist twice as many spells on the first turn once the Mouth got involved, setting him up for failure on the second.
Secondly, the threat of the second caster impacts how your
opponent responds to the first caster. In our second case study, Aragorn
couldn't justify burning Might to resist against the Witch King on Turn 2,
because he might be Transfixed anyway by the Mouth. This can affect him from
Turn 1 if he flubs his rolls against the Witch King’s first cast, and means he
may well end up burning critical resources for nothing (either because he
spends Might to Resist the first cast and then gets Transfixed anyway, or
because he doesn’t spend Might to Resist the first cast and thus ends up
wasting the Will he burned on it). This works even better when the second
caster has something terrifying to cast like Paralyse. Elessar might not even try
to resist the WK's casting because he’s so scared of the Barrow Wight, allowing
the Witch King to to skip all the way to the 'mercilessly pick on Aragorn'
stage right from Turn 1.
And thirdly, having a second spellcaster allows you more
efficiency with your casting once your opponent’s combat hero is out of Will. If
you just have the Witch King casting on Elessar, then even once he’s out of
Will (and even with a reroll to cast) you may end up casting on two dice in
order to guarantee that he’s Transfixed. After all, a failed cast at this stage
can still translate into 3-4 more dead Black Numénóreans or Morannons, so it’s
very worthwhile avoiding. However, if you have the Mouth as well then you’re
much more comfortable casting on a single die, because you know you get a
second bite at the cherry afterwards if you do mess it up. Alternatively, you
could cast with the Mouth first, hoping that he'll Transfix Aragorn and free up
the Witch King to do something more interesting (like Black Darting the enemy
banner).
The combination of these factors means that the second
caster is dramatically more effective than one caster alone, even when that
second caster isn’t of the same calibre as the first (as is clearly the case
with the Witch King/Mouth pairing; I love the Mouth, but he's nowhere near the Witch King's level).
This is all most relevant for casters heavy on ‘resistible’
spells, but as we discussed earlier, the flexible ones certainly benefit too. Black
Dart is generally a great tool for killing helpless enemy targets like horses
or banner bearers, but if a hero is out of Will then it’s also useful for
getting a cheeky Army Leader VP or finishing them off after they survive an
assassination run. Compel, similarly, is excellent against troops but incredible
against heroes. And Nature’s Wrath is good value when you’re bowling over
battlelines but even better when enemy heroes are depleted and ready to be
knocked down as well. Casters focussing on these spells also get a lot of value
out of having a buddy to help them burn down enemy Will pools.
What about a third spellcaster?
If two spellcasters are more than twice as good as one
spellcaster, then should a third spellcaster be even more efficient? And if so,
what about a fourth?
To an extent, this is true. Having a third caster makes your
magic even more lethal and reliable, and means that ‘standard’ 3 Will combat
heroes are often shut down on the very first turn. Anyone who’s played against
the Vanquishers or Black Riders knows how impossible it is to weather that storm of magic
without having your heroes taken out of the game. These are obviously extreme
examples, but Angmar and Mordor can each run triple-caster lists easily enough.
As Angmar I’ve actually had a lot of fun with quadruple-caster lists (as has
Tiberius over at TMAT), although these days I’ve shifted away from these
variants towards those focussed on Gûlavhar.
This illustrates
the first reason why one might not want to take more than two casters:
opportunity cost. Most lists beneath 750 points are only fielding 3 heroes, and
if you take 3 spellcasters then you can end up without any combat heroes of
your own to back them up. Transfixing a hero is all well and good, but where it
gets truly spicy is when you can then send in your own
beatstick to tear them limb from limb. Lists can backfill this to a certain
extent by taking casters like the Witch King and the Mouth, both of which can wade
into combat as well as casting from afar. But in general, by taking triple
casters you are likely giving up some combat power, and that may not be a good
trade.
Secondly, going
harder on casting tends to ‘skew’ your list into excelling against certain
matchups at the cost of others. If you have triple-casters and end up facing a
list with Elessar and Boromir of Gondor, then your opponent is likely going to
have a very bad day. On the other hand, if they have Glorfindel and Elendil
(two heroes with inbuilt Fortify Spirit) then you might find yourself unable to
stop the two beatsticks without reliable magic to fall back on. Or on the third
hand (don’t question it), if you face a list without any big heroes then your casters
may find themselves superfluous, and without any good tools to stop the enemy
horde overwhelming your battleline.
And thirdly, casters
(like most things) suffer from the law of diminishing returns. One caster cuts
Elessar’s combat turns from ‘rampaging all game’ to ‘three turns of combat’. A
second caster reduces that to a single turn of combat. The third
caster may well deny Aragorn any good turns of combat at all, but if he’s the
only worthwhile target for that caster then you’re unlikely to be getting much
value from them.
As such, the best
lists for triple or quadruple casters (aside from the two Legendary Legions
that have nothing but casters available to them) are those with access to very
cheap and/or versatile casters. Mordor could easily field a Witch King backed
by the Mouth and Muzgur, all of which are capable of providing hitting power in
a pinch while not breaking the bank. You could swap out one or more of those
casters with cheap generic Ringwraiths, the Shadow Lord or Dark Marshal (which
provide other noticeable benefits outside of their magic), or Kardush if you
had lots of Orcs to benefit from his Fury. Similarly, Angmar doesn’t lose too
much by taking multiple Barrow Wights, as they’re providing valuable warband
slots and Terror bubbles for cheap on top of their terrifying casting.
In contrast, Good
lists really struggle to access cheap spellcasters. This
impacts their choice of second casters and makes fitting in a third caster
nearly impossible, as Gildor is the only caster below 130 points with resistible
spells, and he frankly isn't very good. He’s
the same points as the Mouth of Sauron, but with worse casting, less
durability, less Might, less warband slots, and no mount option. F6 and Move 8
are nice, but he’s definitely an inferior option. And aside from him, your only options for double-casting require investing nearly/more than 300 points in two casters. Given that those two models won't have much combat
punch between them, it’s much harder to make this work. For Good, the Vanquishers
are therefore about the only way you can make triple casters work.
Wrap up: your Witch King needs a
friend
The above title is probably overselling the point, because
having a second caster isn’t necessary to justify the first one. I’ve
gone undefeated at three tournaments while taking a single caster, and there
are certainly a lot of unsupported Galadriels topping tournaments.
However, what having a single caster means is that you can’t
reliably get through a 3 Will hero’s resources in time to reliably neutralise
them. Sometimes it will work and you’ll devastate them, sometimes it won’t.
Galadriel by herself will probably drain Aragorn’s resources and stop him doing
as much as he otherwise could, but won’t reliably neutralise him until the game
is already in its later stages. As such, if you’re planning to take a single
caster then it’s worthwhile thinking about what non-resistible spells are
available to you, and planning to focus on them in a lot of matchups. Black
Darting out horses or Compelling/Commanding warriors out of position is always
awesome, and Galadriel’s Blinding Light can win some games without her ever
needing to cast another spell.
But if you want your caster to really neutralise enemy
heroes, then what they need is a friend.
Let me know your thoughts on casters in the comments. Have you tried out multi-caster lists for Good? Am I underrating Gildor? Am I overrating a second caster? I'd love to hear from you, below or on the socials.
Until next time, may your casters never feel lonely!
Thanks for the shout-out - I'm glad I actually ran a four-caster list in an event to work through the thought experiment, but I think having the 2 Barrows/1 Witch-King build would ultimately have been more effective than 4 Barrows/1 WWC (as much as I like that build).
ReplyDeleteI think one of the other benefits to running multiple casters is the Will conservation you get on each caster. In the "just Witch-King" example, you've probably burned 4-6 Will to "stop Aragorn" - but that means you probably only have 2-3 turns of him not killing anything before the Witch-King is dangerously low (either because he didn't take any extra Will to keep his cost down OR because he's also fighting stuff and needs the Will for the Will of the Evil rule). By taking a second caster, not only will the Witch-King only burn 2-3 of his Will to get a big hero out of Will, but he and the second caster can take turns shutting him down - which may be REALLY necessary if Elessar is calling Heroic Moves every turn and one of the casters gets charged.
I think on some level you're underselling Gildor - but not by much (I've used him a bunch and he really benefits from two particular builds, in my humble opinion). Gildor's got 4 Will that can reliably cast Immobilize 2-3 times - he's a lot like the Mouth as a great secondary caster, but he really needs a primary caster to help him do his thing. Only having 1 Might point helps a lot here.
DeleteThe first build that can help him a lot is as your March Captain for a Galadriel-led Lothlorien army. As a historical ally, you can drop Gildor, 8 Noldorin Exiles with throwing daggers/Wood Elf Spears, and 4 High Elf Warriors with Elf bows (optionally spears) into the Lothlorien force so that you can March on a turn and get 9 fast models who can all have 2 Attacks each (either innately for Gildor or by shielding) and most of whom can skirmish with 8" movement and 6" throwing daggers. If they happen to be near other units (like Galadhrim Warriors with shields), you can opt to move a bit slower and get more of your army moved up. Gildor plus the cost of the Noldorin Exile upgrade will be cheaper than running a Galadhrim Captain - and the savings you get from having to get a bunch of Galadhrim Knights for speed objectives is quite nice for your numbers.
Alternatively, you can run him with Glorfindel and Tom Bombadil - which is QUITE hero-heavy (400pts spent on three heroes if you give Glorfindel everything), but you can get a 28-model list at 700pts that can give Gildor Might/Will back for constant Heroic Defensing (or speed with Heroic March if you really need it), plus a second caster who can either do irresistible spells to restore resources OR have a resistible spell that deals wounds to Spirit models (via Banishment) OR just tie down an enemy macho hero who walks too close. This list isn't as reliable as "just allying with Galadriel," but it's SUPER fun to run.
Final thought - if you don't care about numbers that much (or are playing closer to 800pts), you can actually squeeze in Arwen into the Bombadil list . . . and at 1000 pts, I've run Glorfindel, Arwen, Gildor, Tom, AND Goldberry before . . . you basically don't have to worry about enemy heroes at all with that kind of build. But that's as close to a quad-caster list as I have ever been able to do without running the White Council or the Vanquishers.
DeleteYeah, I think the 4 Barrow Wights are never quite optimal when compared with slotting in a Witch King. But they definitely get style points, and get to hard counter some lists into oblivion.
DeleteThat's also a good point on the Will savings as well, it's certainly nice for the WK to get to take a break (or just do something else) while the Mouth is Transfixing Aragorn.
I would agree that Gildor would be best as the supporting caster, and especially in that first list where you are getting something from his mobility. Having a second Immobilise is obviously great for all the reasons I discuss here, and the savings from the cavalry are real. That is admittedly counterbalanced by the hitting power you end up missing if you go from a mounted Captain and some cavalry down to Gildor and dudes on foot, but if it fits in a couple more models then it could be worthwhile. It also does force you to take Wood Elves, which I know you are a fan of but I find hard to justify personally.
In saying all that, I don't think Gildor is actually great there, Good just doesn't have many better options. If you could take the Mouth, a Barrow Wight, a basic Ringwraith or probably even Muzgur then I think you would, even if it meant a little more expenditure on mobility. Gildor is filling that 'budget second caster' role that almost no one else can fill, but I'd argue that he's an inferior option relative to all the excellent ones available to Evil.
That Bombadil list does look extremely fun, I'd love to try it out sometime. The synergies with Tom there would help a lot with Gildor's singular Might, so I can definitely see the appeal. And fitting in Arwen obviously gets you the second flexible caster, which is extra fun. I think a few tournaments round here are dropping their 'No Tom or Goldberry' rules, so maybe I'll have to give it a try sometime
Since I love the WK and the mouth combo, how would you fight versus, let's say, a stronger caster list as the vanquishers is?
ReplyDeleteKeep these posts coming!
Ooh, great question!
DeleteI think that against the Vanquishers specifically, you're probably playing much like everyone else does: burn resources early to try and get a kill, and if that fails then run away with everyone that's worth VPs (i.e. the WK and maybe Sully) while trying to die slow and play the objectives with everyone else. If you can get an early Transfix on one of the heroes then it's possible to take them out (assuming their magic doesn't just shut you down anyway), or a Staff is Broken can be game-winning if it works. In general though, you're probably not expecting your magic to do much at all into the Vanquisher's pile of anti-magic tricks, so it's more of a threat than a real use.
Similarly against the Black Riders, you're hoping to do normal Black Riders things like riding out the storm of initial spell-casting, then hoping your C5 frontline can charge often enough to win the game for you. Never ideal, but there's no one that really likes going into Black Riders after all
Against less-extreme magic lists like triple-caster Mordor, I think you're basically pivoting to treating your spellcasters as combat heroes. If they Transfix the Mouth with a Ringwraith then you're basically trading evenly there (their medium-level hero shutting down yours), and with lots of Will you can happily throw Will at resisting any spells that do matter (i.e. Transfixes when they can get a Striking hero into you).
In general, I think you'd be hoping that you could resist enough that you're not getting substantially punished by the magic, while aiming to do damage with your superior combat punch in the meantime. If they win the magical duel but you chop through their lines, then things are in your favour overall I think.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThanks for the overview! I love these posts. I'm going to a 700-point tournament in Fredericksburg VA this weekend, and I'm bringing W-K/Sully after I finally was told I needed to move on from Boromir. I originally had the Mouth as my third hero, with 47 models, but everyone keeps telling me he's awful. In game, he's done alright, but I can't seem to be able to fully leverage both combat and casting potential, although I think I'm spreading out too much. I've been advised VERY strongly to take the Shadow Lord instead, and since I know two of my bigger challengers for winning are taking bolt throwers I've acquiesced. In general, though, what is the reason for the Mouth specifically over a second wraith? As a man who has been let down by Hurin MANY times, I know just how fragile that 2A 2W F5 can be, and I can't believe the worse casting is worth the potential to lose to a single Elf.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I love the look and vibe of the Mouth, so I'd very much consider taking him another time! But why should I, really? What can I say to the people who look at Aragorn's cowardly, dishonorable, treacherous beheading of a herald and an emissary who may not be assailed and say it was no more than he deserved?
Well, I'm always happy to spruik my favourite herald!
DeleteI'll start by acknowledging that in an exceptionally-shooty meta like it sounds like you're facing, the Shadow Lord may well be the correct choice. Obviously being shot off the table is bad, and if that's a big risk then it's worthwhile countering it.
In saying that, when you aren't certain of the presence of multiple Bolt Throwers, I think the Mouth is exceptional value. I say this for three reasons: his magic is normally enough, he hits hard enough to lean on, and he's comparatively cheap.
Addressing that first point, I think a lot of the value of the second caster is in their presence, not in their flexibility and number of Will. The Mouth can throw 3-4 Transfixes in a game, which lets me do the magical double-teaming that I describe in this article and also lets me keep them Transfixed after they're out of Will without having to keep the Witch King casting on them. Having a second Compel or Black Dart would be useful, and having a dozen Will instead of 4 would be nice, but Transfix on a 3+ and 4 Will is normally enough to combo with the Witch King and utterly shut down the opponent's big hero.
Second, his combat power isn't crazy but it adds up. It's at its least effective against Elves, but even there he can still often go into a single model per turn and kill them reliably. Mordor doesn't really have any combat heroes who like charging into Elf battlelines, so the fact that the Mouth doesn't is nothing surprising there. Where he does shine is against the many F4 battlelines where you need the extra punch. Dwarves, Arnor, Isengard, etc, in all of those matchups having a third mounted F5 hero is awesome. He's never going to outperform Suladan, but I find he will regularly get 3-4 kills in a game, which is many more than the Shadow Lord would ever get.
And thirdly, he's 45 points less than the Shadow Lord. That's 5 more D6 models, which is a big increase. Even against lists with decent shooting (say, 9 Elf Bows or a dozen Rangers), it's plausible that 5 models is more than the number the Shadow Lord would save. And when you're not facing shooting, or the shooting is less concerning, or it's one of the many scenarios where you can start brawling right away, those extra 5 models are just beefing up your battleline.
In general, I think the Mouth's advantage over the Shadow Lord is that he gives you the option to pivot to combat when your magic can't win you the game. Against a lot of warrior-focussed lists, having the Shadow Lord won't really do that much for you. He can harass enemy heroes a bit more effectively than the Mouth could, but that's not really critical in these matchups. Instead, having that third combat hero on a horse means you can hope to go in with your heroes and kill 6 enemies on the first turn, and hopefully do that again on the next turn, and on the turn after that. The Shadow Lord can't do that (and will have 5 less warriors backing him up), and that's a big deal.
Finally, to touch on the point of leveraging both the casting and the combat: you don't always get to leverage both on any given turn. Instead, he's like an off-brand Witch King, who can do whichever of combat or casting will be most useful at any given point. Sometimes he will get tagged and you won't get to cast, or you will have positioned him behind your lines to guarantee casting and he won't get to charge. He doesn't have to do both every turn in order to get good value, because he's not really paying very much for either his combat stats or his casting. Cast for a bit and pick on isolated warriors on the flanks, or charge into combat and throw random Transfixes when you get a chance.
Anyway, that's my spiel on the Mouth. Always happy to answer more questions on him, I absolutely love this model!
Thanks so much! I got 3rd at the tournament, but the Shadow Lord was so inessential to my victory he literally might as well have been a normal wraith - I popped his ability TWICE all tournament (I played Angmar - ER - GT - Army of Gothmog - Angmar) and although I really appreciated the double compel/black dart/sap will, I think the Mouth would have been VERY fine. This fall, there's an escalation tournament, and I think I'll use the Mouth there in Mordor. However, I have a closer tournament that I really think you might find it hard to justify using him in.
DeleteI have a 550 Masters tournament at the end of the month, and right now I have W-K/Suladan/Gorbag. I unfortunately only own Haradrim Warriors and 2 Serpent Riders, so I need the third hero in order not to be stuck with a bunch of bad models (as I see it), but even with Gorbag I'm just at 30 models. HOWEVER, I really missed the second caster in a practice game tonight. Would you just bite the 7-point bullet and take a bunch of Haradrim Warriors, keep Gorbag, or go Mouth... on foot? If I did that, I could probably keep 30 models by going down to 11 will on the Witch-king, but is it a good call?
Thanks for all your content, as ever!
I guess that is the thing about an ability like the Shadow Lord's; it's great when you need it, and useless when you don't! Congrats on the placing in any case, it's always good to hear of fellow Mordor successes (not that they're in especially short supply at the moment haha).
DeleteI think at 550 you've got two good options: taking just the WK and Suladan with max warbands, or taking WK/Suladan and a cheap third hero, as you're thinking.
The first option is honestly really strong. Yeah, 6 Might is a pain, and the Haradrim certainly aren't the most efficient warriors. But they do bring solid shooting, and they mean you can hit 38 models at 550. That's probably my preferred option, as 38 is really very scary. At that point it's basically how I've run WK/Sully at 500, but with a Crown/horse WK instead of a basic one. The backline is obviously fragile, but that doesn't matter if you outnumber your opponent by 10.
Alternatively, if you're doing a cheap third hero, then I'd lean to Muzgur. You can hit 30 with a battleline of 12 Black Nums and 11 Morannons (plus Muzgur's spear), and it gets you the second caster that makes such a big difference. That second caster is also on the backlines, so is less susceptible to being charged if you lose a Move-off, and has Heroic Defence so you're not guaranteed to die if a medium-big hero gets into him (unlike the Mouth). Plus, Wither is neat against S4 heroes with a D6 line.
The only things you really lose with him versus the Mouth on foot are March (which Suladan can backfill anyway), Transfix on a 3+ (probably made up for by Wither on a 3+ and the potential free Will from kills) and F5. Those don't really feel worth it for me without the horse to make him a legitimate killing threat.
The comparison to Gorbag (or Zagdush, my preferred choice) is much simpler. As you say, a second caster is amazing, and I've personally come to the same point as you of valuing it more than the third Striker. The cheap combat hero will be better against armies where the heroes don't scare you, and Muzgur will be better when they have a real threat. I think most of the time, even at 550 people will have a combat hero of some sort, and the second caster gets more value than the cheap combat piece. But either choice is subjective there.
Overall, my preferred options are: no third hero>Muzgur>Zagdush>Gorbag>Mouth
Als ik had geweten dat er een mogelijkheid was om mijn droomman te krijgen, had ik mijn tijd niet verspild aan een hoop lage levens. Ik werd meteen vanaf mijn eerste werkdag smoorverliefd op mijn baas en gedurende meer dan een jaar werd het alleen maar erger. Hij was erg rijk, nederig en vrijgezel. Ik heb alles geprobeerd om hem mijn kant op te laten kijken, maar het was allemaal tevergeefs. 3 maanden geleden vond ik een opmerking van Dr. Ilekhojie en hoe zijn werk erg effectief is. Ik nam contact met hem op en legde mijn situatie uit en waarom ik wilde dat mijn baas zich tot mij aangetrokken voelde. Hij deed namens mij een smeekbede en binnen een paar dagen vroeg mijn baas me mee uit en nu zijn we gelukkig in de liefde en is hij het beste wat me is overkomen. Dit alles is mogelijk gemaakt met de hulp van Dr. Ilekhojie. Neem rechtstreeks contact met hem op via zijn e-mail gethelp05@gmail.com of WhatsApp +2348147400259 als je net als ik hulp nodig hebt
ReplyDeleteToen ik Dr. Ilekhojie's contact online vond, was ik eerst helemaal van streek toen ik me realiseerde dat ik hem moest vertellen wat ik in mijn huwelijk had meegemaakt. Ik richtte een war room in in mijn slaapkamerkast en ging rechtstreeks naar de bron! Het werd vaak moeilijk; mijn man was nog steeds thuis en niet ondersteunend en wilde nog steeds scheiden, maar ik wist dat het weinige dat ik had mij en mijn dochter zou steunen. Toen kwam plotseling afgelopen zaterdag Dr. Ilekhojie's verzoeningsspreuk die hem in een positie bracht waarin hij moest beslissen of hij ons zou verlaten of aan ons huwelijk zou werken. Pas door het verzoeningsritueel werd hem daadwerkelijk verteld dat hij nog steeds wilde trouwen. Met Dr. Ilekhojie's verzoeningsritueel is niets onmogelijk. Geef NOOIT op!" Neem contact op met Dr. Ilekhojie als u problemen hebt in uw huwelijk. Stuur een e-mail naar gethelp05@gmail.com of bel hem op zijn telefoonnummer +2348147400259
ReplyDeleteIk ben hier om iedereen te informeren over de goede werken van Dr. Ilekhojie. Mijn ex-vrouw en ik hebben nu al bijna 2 jaar problemen en we hebben alle mogelijke therapie en gesprekken met onze ouders geprobeerd, maar niets hielp. We vechten over alles en de scheiding dreigde totdat ik een recensie van Dr. Ilekhojie zag. Ik nam contact met hem op en informeerde hem over mijn toestand. Hij beloofde een verzoeningsritueel uit te voeren dat ervoor zal zorgen dat de band tussen mij en mijn vrouw wordt hersteld. Het is nu een week geleden dat ik zijn hulp heb ingeschakeld en de zaken beginnen beter te worden tussen mij en mijn vrouw. We wonen nu weer in dezelfde slaapkamer en we hebben allebei onze advocaten geïnformeerd om de echtscheidingsplannen uit te stellen. Ik ben nu zo blij dat ik weer van mijn vrouw kan genieten. Neem contact op met Dr. Ilekhojie als u problemen heeft in uw huwelijk. E-mail: gethelp05@gmail.com of WhatsApp +2348147400259
ReplyDeleteIk was de grootste scepticus ter wereld. Ik geloofde nooit in magische spreuken of zoiets, maar een betrouwbare bron (een zeer naaste collega) vertelde me dat Dr. Ilekhojie erg effectief is. Het was een van de beste dingen die ik ooit heb gedaan. Mijn liefdesleven was een puinhoop, ik had twee scheidingen achter de rug en stond op het punt van een derde. Ik kon gewoon geen nieuwe scheiding aan. Ik wilde harder mijn best doen om onze relatie te laten werken, maar mijn vrouw leek er niets om te geven. Ik was in de war en wist niet wat ik opnieuw moest doen en besloot Dr. Ilekhojie om hulp te vragen. Hij voerde een verzoeningsritueel uit en smeekte namens ons. Hij vertelde me ook dat mijn vrouw van me houdt, maar dat onze verbinding in het spirituele rijk laag is. Hij heeft het opgelost en nu zijn we gelukkig en gaan we niet meer scheiden. Deze man is echt en hij kan je ook helpen om je gebroken relatie te herstellen. Ik heb mijn vrouw terug! We gaan nu samen naar huwelijkstherapie. Ik laat zijn contactgegevens achter voor iedereen die hulp nodig heeft E-mail: gethelp05@gmail.com /Viber: +2348147400259
ReplyDeleteGoedemorgen allemaal, ik ben hier om dit goede nieuws over hoe ik mijn ex-vrouw terugkreeg aan de hele wereld te verspreiden. Het begon allemaal toen mijn vrouw me bedroog met een andere man, zonder dat ze wist dat de man een tovenaar was, de man sprak een spreuk uit over mijn vrouw waardoor mijn vrouw haar gevoelens voor mij en de kinderen veranderde en ons huwelijk van zeven jaar verbrak. Ik was in de war en gestrest door de pijn van het alleenstaande vaderschap, dus belde ik een vriend en legde hem mijn huwelijksuitdagingen uit. Hij instrueerde en stuurde me om contact op te nemen met deze geweldige krachtige spreukenmaker genaamd DR WALE. De belangrijkste reden waarom hij me instrueerde om contact op te nemen met DR WALE was omdat hij de laatste tijd wat getuigenissen op internet had gelezen die sommige mensen hadden geschreven over de krachtige spreukenmaker DR WALE en ik was zo blij en ik besloot om hulp van hem te zoeken, wat hij perfect deed door een spreuk uit te spreken over mijn vrouw en de krachten van de andere man te gebruiken waardoor ze terugkwam bij mij en om vergeving smeekte. Ik zal niet stoppen met het publiceren van zijn naam op het net vanwege het goede werk dat hij doet. Voor iedereen met huwelijksproblemen, echtscheidingsproblemen, verloren geliefde of andere relatiegerelateerde problemen, kunt u contact opnemen met WhatsApp/Viber: +2347054019402 of e-mail: drwalespellhome@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteIk voelde dat mijn leven voorbij was en mijn kinderen dachten dat ze hun vader nooit meer zouden zien. Ik probeerde sterk te zijn, alleen voor de kinderen, maar ik kon de pijn die mijn hart kwelde niet beheersen, mijn hart was gevuld met pijn omdat ik echt verliefd was op mijn man. Ik probeerde veel opties en een paar mensen probeerden me te helpen zonder succes. Terwijl ik op een eenzame nacht op internet aan het surfen was, vond ik contact met Dr. Ilekhojie, van wie mijn instinct me meteen vertelde dat hij me kon helpen. Hij voerde het benodigde werk uit voor verzoening en mijn man, die maandenlang weg was geweest, kwam terug. Nu leven we weer gelukkig samen. Iedereen die relatie- of huwelijksproblemen heeft, moet contact opnemen met Dr. Ilekhojie, want hij is de oplossing voor al uw problemen. Hier is zijn contact. WhatsApp +2348147400259 of e-mail: gethelp05@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteIk stel je voor aan iemand die het geluk dat ik met mijn man deelde, heeft hersteld en ik ben daar echt eeuwig dankbaar voor. Ik was bijna 6 maanden hulpeloos en neerslachtig toen mijn man van 10 jaar me verliet vanwege huwelijksproblemen. Ik deed alles wat ik kon om mijn huwelijk te redden en niets werkte totdat ik contact kreeg met Dr. Ilekhojie en hij kwam me redden. Hij verzoende ons en de liefde en het geluk dat ik met mijn man deelde, waren binnen een paar dagen weer hersteld. Ik weet dat het raar klinkt als hij echt iemand kan helpen, maar hij is 100% gegarandeerd dat hij je niet teleurstelt als hij je verzekert dat je het gewenste resultaat krijgt. Hij kan jou ook helpen als je hem de kans wilt geven om dat te doen. Stuur hem een sms op zijn nummer +2348147400259 of e-mail: gethelp05@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteMijn huwelijk van 6 jaar is gevuld met eindeloze ellende, wat leidde tot de scheiding die ik nooit van mijn man wilde. Alles stortte in en we gingen ieder onze eigen weg. Ik probeerde verder te gaan, maar het was zo moeilijk voor mij omdat ik nog steeds van mijn man hield en mijn dochter heeft altijd gehuild omdat ze haar vader mist. Ik had geen andere keus dan hulp te zoeken, wat ertoe leidde dat ik contact opnam met DR Ilekhojie. Nadat ik zoveel goede opmerkingen over zijn werk had gezien en contact met hem had opgenomen, verzekerde hij me dat hij mij en mijn man zou verzoenen met zijn verzoeningsritueel. Hij legde me uit dat mijn man van gedachten zou veranderen over de scheiding en terug zou keren en dat we weer een gelukkig gezin zouden zijn. Ik ben blij jullie allemaal te kunnen vertellen dat de liefde en het geluk zijn hersteld en dat we weer bij elkaar zijn gekomen, allemaal dankzij Dr Ilekhojie. Hij is nooit te druk om iemand te helpen. Dus neem nu contact met hem op als je ook hulp nodig hebt. E-mail: gethelp05@gmail.com of stuur hem gewoon een sms via WhatsApp +2348147400259
ReplyDeleteMijn huwelijk van 6 jaar is gevuld met eindeloze ellende, wat leidde tot de scheiding die ik nooit van mijn man wilde. Alles stortte in en we gingen ieder onze eigen weg. Ik probeerde verder te gaan, maar het was zo moeilijk voor mij omdat ik nog steeds van mijn man hield en mijn dochter heeft altijd gehuild omdat ze haar vader mist. Ik had geen andere keus dan hulp te zoeken, wat ertoe leidde dat ik contact opnam met DR Ilekhojie. Nadat ik zoveel goede opmerkingen over zijn werk had gezien en contact met hem had opgenomen, verzekerde hij me dat hij mij en mijn man zou verzoenen met zijn verzoeningsritueel. Hij legde me uit dat mijn man van gedachten zou veranderen over de scheiding en terug zou keren en dat we weer een gelukkig gezin zouden zijn. Ik ben blij jullie allemaal te kunnen vertellen dat de liefde en het geluk zijn hersteld en dat we weer bij elkaar zijn gekomen, allemaal dankzij Dr Ilekhojie. Hij is nooit te druk om iemand te helpen. Dus neem nu contact met hem op als je ook hulp nodig hebt. E-mail: gethelp05@gmail.com of stuur hem gewoon een sms via WhatsApp +2348147400259
ReplyDelete