Mordor is by far the most versatile faction in MESBG, with the most profiles to pick from (11 more than the nearest competition, Gondor) and many different ways to build an army. You can create Orc hordes, monster mashes, burly Morannon formations, Nazgûl flying circuses, or elite cavalry lists. The flexibility and range of options can be quite daunting for newer players, many of whom have picked up Mordor as part of a starter set.
For better and worse, however, there is truly one Mordor archetype
to rule them all. This interesting and varied faction has a ‘best’
way to run it, and while there is substantial variation within the archetype, it
still requires some quite specific listbuilding. There are lots of names for
different variants of this build, but I like to refer to them all generally as ‘Witch
King plus a friend’ lists. And to answer the click-baity question in the title:
yeah, this archetype probably is the strongest army in the game, especially since it dodged a nerf in the last FAQ.
As ever, if you’re just here for a chill game with friends
then feel free to disregard everything you’re about to read. Mordor can make a
lot of cool lists, and you don’t need to run this one to win games. Ali King has had a lot of success with Morgul Stalkers supporting Gothmog, which is about as far from this build as it's possible to get. But if you’re
looking to optimise (and aren't Ali King), then Witch King plus friend lists are the way to go.
This list tends to consist of 5 basic elements, starting (fittingly
enough) with…
Number 1: The Witch King
The Witch King may well be the best profile in the entire game,
and is certainly one of the most efficient. He brings top-tier casting (arguably better
than Gandalf the White, who costs nearly twice as much), great combat ability,
Harbinger, 18 warband slots and the ability to be a safe leader pick no matter
whom else you’ve brought along.
You can run this guy as cheap as 90 points (3/10/1 on foot
without the Crown), and I think that’s actually really strong at 500 points.
But from 550 up he’s excellent at around 130-155 points, with 3 Might, 10-14
Will and 2-3 Fate, plus the Crown and a horse. At that level he brings so much
to the list, and you need an exceptionally strong reason not to include him. He
can also be powered up and given a Fell Beast, but I will say that cheaper is
often better with this guy: I find he’s often just fine at 130 points (3/10/2),
and investing more can just be cutting into your numbers for limited return.
Remember, every 1-2 Will you don’t need to spend could have been another model!
In certain lists, you can replace this guy with the Shadow
Lord, or maybe the Dark Marshal (assuming you didn’t bring along Suladân, of
course). Either will generally be a downgrade, but the former does have a role
in particularly shooty metas. You’re giving up casting ability, Might, warband
slots and combat punch for that Blinding Light or 6” banner, but if you need
those things then it could maybe be worthwhile. Maybe. But generally, just
start your lists with a 130-point Witch King and you’ll be off to a great
start.
Of course, this list archetype is called Witch King plus a
friend, so our next stop has to be…
Number 2: The friend
Suladân is 115 points on an armoured horse, and he brings a
6” banner (that counts for banner VPs!), great combat stats, March, access to
punchier cavalry and way more warband slots than you’re likely to use. He’s
another of the most efficient models in the game, and there is almost no reason
not to include him in a Mordor list. Or, for that matter, in a Serpent Horde
list, or a Far Harad list, or a Corsair list. He doesn’t even take your Army
Bonus, so you still get the power of C5 on your frontlines and reroll 1’s to
wound. He’s just so good for his points, and brings so much that you’d
otherwise be shelling out for, that it’s hard to see why you’d leave him at
home. This efficiency is why a lot of people expected him to be nerfed in the recent FAQ, by the way: he doesn't do anything inherently broken, he just does way too much for his points cost.
Really, there’s only one reason to leave Sully at home, and that’s that the Spider Queen exists, is also bonkers, and is red allies with the Serpent Horde. Where Suladân is just raw efficiency, the Queen brings along all the tricks. Taking a Bat Swarm alongside her, she can be a terrifying assassin model, especially when you’re able to put heroes under strain with the Witch King’s casting already. She can churn through battlelines or Hurl down their flank, and her Broodlings are incredible in certain scenarios. She nearly wins you Destroy the Supplies and Reconnoitre by herself, and they’re pretty awesome in Heirlooms, Seize Ground and Retrieval too.
In the end, the analysis here is whether the extra expense
of the Spider Queen (considering that you’re likely bringing a Bat Swarm and
need to fit in a banner somewhere else), alongside the loss of your Army
Bonus, the smaller banner and her increased fragility, are worthwhile trades
for how well she plays certain scenarios and her own raw punch. I think lists
built around her end up much stronger in certain matchups and scenarios, but probably
a bit weaker overall. She also requires a lot more skill to use than Suladân, who can
largely just charge into warriors in the middle and do 6” banner things.
Speaking of models that don’t require much skill to play,
this list has two heroes but it needs a battleline…
Number 3: Black Númenóreans plus
spears
The not-so-humble Black Númenórean is yet another of the
most efficient profiles in the game; are you sensing a trend here? A wall of
them is F4, D6, C4 and causes Terror, synergising perfectly with the Witch King
sitting behind them. That already matches up excellently into many opposing
lists, and things get even better when you back them up with Morannon Orcs with
shields and spears. These guys bring the S4 that the Númenóreans lack, alongside
acting as a second wave of D6 in case your opponent finally manages to chew
through your front rank.
When you desperately need to scrounge up some points but still want to keep your numbers up, Mordor Orcs with spears can be a viable alternative. They save you a handy 3 points per model, but you’re dropping two points of Defence and one of Strength for that saving. It can be necessary to make certain builds and points levels work, but remember that you are giving up something noticeable for the cost. The budget-version really reduces the hitting power of the battleline, as well as losing you the flexibility to swing your spear supports onto the frontline if you want to swamp an enemy. Being able to swing onto the frontline without exposing your D4 is particularly useful against factions with F5+ – where you want as many 1-on-1 fights as possible– and F5+ lists tend to be amongst the harder matchups for this archetype in any case. So while the Mordor Orcs swell your numbers, there is a real tradeoff here that normally favours the Morannons.
Finally, there are certain points levels where you will
struggle to fit in enough Mordor warband slots for the numbers you need. 500 is
the perfect example: you probably only want to field the Witch King and Suladân
as your heroes, but that only gives you 18 warband slots for your Black Númenóreans and Morannons. The answer? Haradrim warriors with spears (and
probably bows). They’re more expensive than Mordor Orcs and honestly don’t
bring much value for that, but they allow you to take advantage of Suladân’s 18
slots and sometimes that’s just what you need. At 500 points fielding these
guys over Morannons is probably a 7-8 model difference, which is massive
in those smaller games. Otherwise, leave these guys at home: they’re just less
efficient than the Mordor options you have available.
Those Mordor warriors will generally need more than just the Witch King to lead them though, so you’re going to need…
Number 4: The supporting heroes
Depending on the points level, you’ll probably need 1-2 more
Mordor heroes to fill in points and get you the warband slots you need. Beyond leading
troops, you want one of two things from these guys: extra combat punch or
supporting casting. Thankfully Mordor is blessed with an absolute ton of
characters who can provide those things, so this section of the list is by far
the most varied.
If you’re looking for combat punch, then you basically have
a neat little spectrum ranging all the way from:
- Grishnakh (the cheapest Striking hero at 50 points, with Backstabber to boot); to
- Gorbag (55 points, but with conditional F5 and A3 to let him chop his way through warriors more efficiently); to
- Zagdush (60 points and without resource-free F5, but with permanent A3 and the ability to hit S5 when needed); to
- Goroth (80 points and not much killier than Zagdush, but much more resilient); to
- Shagrat (115 points but more resilient still, more resistant to magic, and much, much scarier in combat).
I think that much like with the backline options, the
supporting combat heroes are all relatively balanced against each other, in
that you gain valuable things by going up the points spectrum but sacrifice
model count for the privilege. Perhaps the one exception is Goroth, who
definitely has his uses but is a tiny bit too expensive for them. He doesn’t
really hit any harder than Zagdush thanks to only having 2 Attacks, and he’s at
the point where you probably just bite the bullet and grab Shagrat to really
solve the ‘killing D7 models’ problem. That problem, incidentally, is why I
personally lean to Zagdush these days: he’s really reliable at going into a
single D7 warrior and killing it, which over 3 turns can add up to a hole in a
battleline and a collapsing enemy force. Shagrat, of course, is scarier still
in this context, but he also costs the same amount as Zagdush and Gorbag
put together, which bring twice the Might and feel a bit stronger to me overall.
Alternatively, you can bring in a second caster. Magic becomes
exponentially more valuable the more you have of it because of the way Will
stores work, so bringing in a second source of Transfix and Drain Courage powers
up the Witch King dramatically. Drain Courage, in particular, is pretty useless
if you’ve only got one caster, but rapidly becomes game-winning with two.
Picture Aragorn facing two casters and needing to choose between burning all
his Will to resist spells you cast on a 2+, or becoming Courage 1 after two
turns of casting. With a Terror frontline, that means he can become severely
hampered, fast.
There are three real options here for Mordor, each with
their own selling points and weaknesses. The budget Ringwraith (normally 2/7/1,
maybe with an extra Will or a horse) brings the most Will to cast with and the
widest variety of spells, with an extra Compel being particularly useful. It
also brings an extra Harbinger, which can be useful in larger games. However,
it’s also the most vulnerable, and brings absolutely no combat punch to the
list.
Muzgur, on the other hand, can add a F4/S4 spear support
wherever is needed, and chew through some warriors with his two Attacks to help
close out a messy endgame. Wither is a great spell for neutralising S4 heroes
(especially foot ones, who really have to resist or watch their damage output
crumble), and Heroic Defence is a great tool to have in your back pocket. He
also will probably approach the Ringwraith in total number of Will, as once you
kill even two models then you’ll have as much Will as the Ringwraith can use
without dying. His downside is that his Transfix is only on a 4+, so he’s much
less reliable at setting up your combat pieces when they go into enemy heroes.
He can still Wither and Drain Courage, but he is just a bit more limited in
that regard.
Finally, the Mouth keeps the 3+ Transfix and Terror of the
Ringwraith, and backs it up with the most combat power of the three thanks to
F5 and A2. The hard cap of 4 Will is noticeable, however, and means that he’s never going to
match the Ringwraith for casting. Where the Mouth shines is on an armoured
horse, where he’s 15 points more expensive than his comparatives but hits
dramatically harder, ending up straddling the ‘second caster’ and ‘added combat
punch’ roles neatly.
If you want a second caster then, I’d generally lean to
Muzgur as the default option, with the Mouth pipping him if you want to invest
the extra points for the added punch, or the Ringwraith being the pick if you
really want the extra magic versatility or second Harbinger. A Spider Queen
list might really benefit from the extra Compel, for example, while a Suladân
version might prefer to have the Mouth completing a trio of F5 mounted heroes
to get early kills against tougher enemy battlelines.
You can also make do with Kardush as your second caster, and that's not an awful idea. Without an Orc frontline though, he tends to be just along for his Flameburst, and at that point I think I'd rather have one of the above options instead. Access to a second Transfix or Drain Courage is just a big deal for this kind of list.
The key question in this section is how to choose between
combat punch or a second caster. For me, I tend to prioritise the second
caster, but pick one of the more combat-focussed options (the Mouth or Muzgur)
first. If I have points for another hero, then I generally like a cheap combat
hero like Zagdush, and might upgrade him to Shagrat or just add Gorbag if I
make it to 800 points or so.
Finally, there are certain situations when Guritz could also
be a worthwhile inclusion in this slot. I’d say that’s only really the case in Maelstrom-heavy
scenario packs, and you’ll generally be better off investing in another Striker or spellcaster instead.
So we have our heroes sorted, alongside the battleline we’ll
be leading. That likely fills the majority of our points, but we still have
room for a handful of supporting elements…
Number 5: The rest of the army
This section basically translates to a handful of Trackers
and fast models, depending on whom you allied with.
Basically every Mordor list should include at least one Tracker,
which can provide a modicum of shooting threat and the cheapest possible
objective-sitter. Some players advocate for 6-12 Trackers, giving you a
legitimate shooting threat and swelling your numbers for a very reasonable
price. This does shrink your battleline and creates a very squishy
underbelly to your list though, so there are definite downsides to taking this
approach. I personally am not a fan of shooting in general, so I lean towards smashing
people in the face with a brick of D6 infantry, but I can see the appeal of the
Tracker variants. On the other hand, a recent game with this list did see my Tracker dismounting Hurin with a cheeky shot, so maybe I should be fielding a few more than I am.
A handful of fast-moving models is always excellent for claiming
objectives and sprinting off the board in Reconnoitre, and you’ve got a few
options for this. Warg Riders with shields are great, being a little
more resilient than people expect and hitting surprisingly hard. Serpent Riders
hit even harder on the charge, but are a touch more expensive and vulnerable to
S2/4. They also take up slots in Suladân’s warband rather than your Mordor
heroes’, which is always an advantage. Finally, if you are running the
Spider Queen then you get the option to go either super-budget with Fell Wargs
(the cheapest fast option available, albeit with no hitting power at all) or
deluxe with Spiders (scary and mobile, but cutting into your numbers). Any
option here is solid, and which one will be most appropriate will depend on
your specific list.
Finally, if you’re running the Spider Queen then you should take a Bat Swarm. They’re expensive, but they add so much to the list that no other model can replicate. Take one, they’re awesome.
Putting it all together: the army as
a whole
All told, this gives you an army that probably looks something
like this:
Witch King 3/10/2 on horse with Crown
Mouth of Sauron on armoured horse
Suladân on armoured horse
Zagdush
Serpent
Rider
Tracker
19 Black
19
Morannon Orcs with spear/shield
750 points, 44 models, 11 Might, 4 fast models, 1 bow
It’s a scary-looking
list, but how does it play? In general, quite simply. It’s a wall of elite
infantry that can grind out most enemy lists with sheer efficiency, and often
that will be enough to carry you to victory. Against more elite lists you need
to rely on the hitting power of your 4 heroes to do early damage and allow your
numbers to swamp them, while against hordes you fall back on your solid
battleline to outlast them. Enemy heroes never enjoy facing double casters, and
low Courage enemies hate the Terror wall with a burning passion (but from a
distance, because they failed their Terror checks to charge).
It's a list that has a lot of potential for skill
expression, but isn’t one that requires an expert general to get results from
it. At the end of the day it’s still just a wall of efficient infantry backed
by efficient heroes, so it’s never going to get you awful results.
It’s also an army with a lot of excellent matchups (Angmar, Survivors
of Laketown, Hunter Orcs, basically anything that’s F3 and/or low Courage) but
without any awful matchups of its own. Elves can be tricky, but it generally
has the numbers to swamp them. Assault on Helm’s Deep or the Beornings are
obviously terrifying, but entirely scenario-dependent. Host of the Dragon Emperor
is a concern, but hopefully the opponent is already catatonic from the sheer
boredom of playing that list. And of course, it's less of a concern post-FAQ because you've likely got a solid numbers edge on it now.
So, is Witch King plus a friend the best army in the game?
Honestly, I think the answer has to be yes. It is competitive
at every points level (at least above 450 or so), it’s never out of the game while being able to
effortlessly shut some lists down, and it can compete in every scenario and at
every skill level. And the stats bear this out, with a frankly incredible overrepresentation
of Witch King/Suladân and (occasionally) Witch King/Spider Queen at the top.
Those two lists podiumed 16 times at GBHL 100 tournaments last year, which are
the largest and most competitive events around. That’s as many as the two next
highest contenders (Assault on Helm’s Deep and Host of the Dragon Emperor)
managed between them, and both of those have subsequently been nerfed. I've personally taken it to two tournaments (which you can read about here and here) and gone undefeated both times, so I can attest to its power from personal experience.
Until the Crown of
Morgul or Suladân stop dodging FAQs like Aragorn ducking that arrow from the Goblin archers, this is the place to be if you want to lead the armies of
Mordor to victory. The time of Men is over, the time of the (Evil) men has
begun…
How do you run your Mordor variants? Do you wish this list was nerfed into the ground, or are you glad it slid by unnoticed?
Have you been stomped on by this list and just want to rant? I’d love to hear
from you below or on social media.
Until next time, may all your favourite models be 10-15% undercosted!
No Mordor Troll for drumming in the discussion? Shocker. :P That's a scary list to be sure - my only question is if there's a reason why you don't have a dedicated spear-support for Zagdush? There are currently 20 front-line models and only 19 spears . . . makes me think that downgrading a few Morannons to be Orcs with spears wouldn't be a bad trade?
ReplyDeleteI like the Witch-King a lot - and use him a lot in my lists - and I've been leaning into Zagdush/Gorbag over Shagrat in recent months. I also feel like the Shadow Lord is just really nice to have alongside the Witch-King to keep him (and the rest of your army) from being shot, but adding him usually requires him to be on foot because everything else is so expensive.
I know, I'm showing my biases. It's actually a great question re Zagdush, and there isn't a great answer: previous variants have had Muzgur instead of the Mouth at 750, so they had one additional spear. You're probably right that it's worthwhile trying to fit in one more spear Orc by downgrading two Morannons, good call there!
DeleteI do really like the Shadow Lord, but he does cut into the numbers so much. Your meta seems very shooting-heavy from what I've seen of your tournament reports, so I imagine he makes a lot more sense in that context. In Queensland there seemed to be more focus on close-combat efficiency, and I'm yet to discover whether the local Canberra meta necessitates anti-shooting tech. Relative to the Mouth he's effectively dropping your numbers by 4 even if he's on foot, and it takes a really shooty list for the Shadow Lord to have saved you 4 D6 models. And then his casting is better than the Mouth but he's without combat punch, so I'm not sure it's otherwise an amazing trade for me. Definitely the right call in heavy-shooting metas though
Hi Sharbie, love your blog. Been lurking for a while but this is my firsts rime typing. Coul you give me some advice since you are such an experimented mordor player? I often play against a friend who likes to field Numenor, usually at 800 pts.
ReplyDeleteI tend to field a list with lots of black numenoreans but he wipes the floor with them every time. I don't know how to stop Elendil and his heroic combats.
He uses high elves too sometimes.
Thanks, keep the good work!
Thanks for the kind words!
DeleteNumenor (and especially the Last Alliance) with Elendil is a hard matchup for Mordor honestly, one of the hardest. As you say, Elendil is very hard to stop, so it often becomes a race against time to deal enough damage to the troops before Elendil minces you. There are a few things you can do to tip that race in your favour, however:
First, prioritise dismounting Elendil if at all possible. This is a great matchup for 6-8 Trackers, who can just sit behind your battleline shooting at him every turn. Any damage there is great, because either you kill the models he's fighting (no Heroic Combat this turn!), wound him (leader VPs!) or dismount him (the real goal here). Also remember that you can still Black Dart his horse, even with Fortify Spirit. It will get two free dice to resist, but it doesn't have any Might, so its odds of resisting on a 5 or 6 aren't actually that high. Once Elendil is dismounted you can just bury him in dudes and hopefully he won't be able to break through to get into your heroes.
Speaking of which, your heroes are a key part of winning the killing race. Against F4 Numenoreans your F5 mounted heroes like Suladan, the Witch King and the Mouth can do big damage, and it's worthwhile burning Might on Combats to do that damage faster than Elendil can hit you back. If you're up against Elves then this is harder, but don't be afraid to call Strikes to get early kills. If Suladan goes in and Strikes to kill 4 Elves across two turns, then that's a big hole in the line that your troops can then flood into, and can really swing the game.
Building on that, if you're facing Elves then try super hard to force broken-up, 1-on-1 combats wherever possible. If you let them form a battleline of Elves backed by Numenoreans and stay in that all game then you're stuffed, they'll grind through you at pace. But if you can break through and get your Morannon backline fighting Elves while your Black Num frontline fights Numenoreans, all in one-on-one fights, then you should quite rapidly get an edge.
In any case, it's still a hard matchup, but not unbeatable: I've played and won it before, it just takes aggressive play and a bit of luck. Well, a lot of luck
Thank you so much for the answer. I'm playig with him next week and i'm gonna run a catapult too. All in.
DeleteThat's definitely a scary threat, unless he has Blinding Light. Then it's probably not the best call, albeit still a fun one
DeleteThis list confirms everything I have said about control play style in mesgb. Though i have one question, you mention Assault on Helms Deep, but not mesntioned Helms Guard or Theodreds guard LL, which should be good at countering this list to different degrees. Or am i missing something.
ReplyDeleteThey definitely can be scary matchups, but you also have the tools to beat both. D6 everywhere means the throwing spears aren't a huge issue, and you likely have a numbers edge on them at most points values. Helm hates facing multiple casters, and Theodred isn't a big fan either. Once their key heroes are neutralised, your combat heroes can do quite substantial damage to their warriors (especially against Theodred's Guard), while your warriors should win the grinding war with equal numbers thanks to S4 at the back and the bigger banner.
DeleteOverall, I'd say that neither are knockout matchups for Mordor, but they probably favour it a little bit. The much bigger threat from Rohan is Riders of Theoden, which is really very scary for scary Mordor builds. Turns out a bunch of Heroic Combatting F5 heroes is a difficult thing for all those Black Nums to face!
Hi! First of all, thank you for the great article. Now to my question: I am an absolute beginner when it comes to Lord of the Rings and I have now bought the Ostgiliath box and the Mordor Battlehost box with a friend. I would like to make a Fun Orc Spam list from these two boxes that is still somewhat competitive (my friend is often in tournament mode.) Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Maybe something else I could buy (although that is also limited, I'm a poor student)
ReplyDeleteThank you in advance!
Glad you enjoyed! I think that if you're looking to build lists from those models, then you have 4 options that are (in my opinion) competitive.
DeleteFirst, the Black Gate Opens Legendary Legion (in Gondor at War) is pretty strong at low-to-mid points and would broadly work with those models. You'd convert your Troll a bit to be a Troll Chieftain, convert a couple of Warg Riders into Orc Captains on Warg, and then spam Mordor/Morannon Orcs to your heart's content. It won't be amazing, but will be a perfectly solid list. If doing this, then I'd recommend picking up the Mouth of Sauron on horse at some point, as he adds an extra tool to the arsenal for a pretty low price.
Alternatively, you can try one of several kinds of Orc goodstuff. Ali King swears by a list that focusses on Gothmog, Kardush, a Drummer and Morgul Stalkers backed by Morannons, seasoned by cavalry and other heroes to taste. It hits very hard when it wants to, moves pretty fast, and is probably quite a strong list overall. You'd need to convert up some Stalkers, along with picking up/converting the supporting heroes (probably some combination of Kardush, Muzgur, Zagdush or Gorbag), but it seems like a fun list.
Thirdly, you could swap out Gothmog and most/all of the Stalkers and just spam cheap heroes with cheap troops and a Drum. You'd again want Kardush and a bunch of the solid little Orc heroes, and then just a ton of numbers. It's a solid list, with limited tricks and less damage output than the last list but a lot more models.
And finally, you could just run Angmar. The Witch King plus a couple of Barrow Wights and a swarm of Orcs is great, and supplementing them with Wargs and Warg Riders, Spectres (easily converted) or a Shade (also an easy conversion) makes for a solid list. It can be built in lots of ways, but uses basically everything in the Mordor battlehost. Key pickups initially would be the Barrow Wights and things to proxy/convert into Spectres, but later on you can try the Gulavhar builds that are so fun (but not very beginner-friendly).
Hope that helps, and happy to answer more specific questions as well!