New Army of Carn Dûm v Pits of Dol Guldur Battle Report

Azog sniffed the air, scanning the field as he prowled atop his White Warg. Behind him marched his host, the armoured phalanxes of Gundabad flanked by the rowdy gangs of Hunter Orcs and packs of Fell Wargs. It was a fearsome force, and one that he would use to establish his dominance over the North.

His Warg’s ears suddenly pricked up, and a moment later Azog heard it too: the calls of Men and traitorous Orcs. They had come to this place as well, drawn by the call of his Master and the hope of becoming His principal servants. This could not stand.

Azog would break them, and he would bend them to his will. He would slay their leaders and cast down their banners, and all that were left would serve him as slaves. He would be the one to lead the armies of Dol Guldur, for he was Azog the Defiler.

Azog clashes with the forces of Carn Dûm

On release, I was pretty down on the Army of Carn Dûm. Their Legendary Legion bonuses were relatively unexciting, the characters were closer to ‘fine’ than ‘exciting’, and the basic warriors it was built around were distinctly a point overcosted.

However, some brief listbuilding with them did seem to show a bit more potential than I’d initially thought. They could fit in a lot of models with the three heroes, and with a 6” banner and 6” Malbeth-aura (plus S4 across the board) it looked like there might be more potential than I’d initially seen.

To test out this theory, I decided to put them through the crucible of my current favourite 550-point list: the Pits of Dol Guldûr. Can the barbarian horde overcome the power of Azog? Let’s find out!

Lists

41 models is quite a few for 550

This list does actually look pretty solid. Some decent shooting and a few fast models back up a substantial core of angry S4 infantry. Aldrac is a pretty scary combat threat, and Fraecht should hopefully mitigate the D5 frontline. F3 across the board is quite concerning, although at least here it won’t hurt quite as badly as it could into the rest of the meta. The big risk is that the list doesn’t have great options for taking on powerful enemy heroes, which could hurt it in this matchup in particular.

Speaking of which…

Decent numbers and one hell of a leader

This list is awesome. It’s got decent numbers, lots of Might for March, some squirrelly Wargs for objectives, and all the hitting power in the world. The one-two punch of Azog smashing a hole for 20 Hunter Orcs to pour through is insane, especially when you can auto-win Priority to guarantee that punch landing. It’s got a lot more tricks than one would first expect, and is capable of coming from behind or brutally snowballing, depending on the matchup. On the other hand, between the superior numbers of the Carn Dûm list and its shooting, Pits will need to really leverage Azog to avoid being swamped and taken apart piecemeal.

 

Scenario and deployment

Carn Dûm spread out while Pits prepares to race forward

The scenario is definitely one that favours Carn Dûm, because those 5 Orc Trackers will get to generate plenty of value against the D4 Hunter Orcs. Pits did manage to win the roll to pick deployment sides, however, and took advantage by shoving Carn Dûm onto the side with a big forest down the middle of the deployment zone. This forced the men to choose between compressing their entire force into a smaller frontage, or splitting up one warband. In the end they opted for the latter, hoping to either spread out the Pits warbands to match or to sweep in behind the Hunter Orcs once the lines were engaged.

In hindsight, this was a mistake, as we’ll come to shortly. But for now, the armies were deployed and ready to clash!

 

Turns 1-3: Jockeying for position

The first two turns were relatively uneventful, with Carn Dûm creeping forward on each flank while Pits stormed up the centre. Riding ahead of his host was Azog, hoping to either get in early to start racking up kills or (more likely) constrain Carn Dûm’s movement with his 10” bubble of threat. A hail of arrows from the Orc Trackers plinked harmlessly off him thanks to his D5.

Carn Dûm creeping forward as Azog leads his host into battle

Pits winning Priority on the second turn saw them hurtle further forward, with Carn Dûm responding by falling back on their left flank outside Azog’s threat range. Pits had committed a large force to this flank, and Carn Dûm was concerned by the prospect of Azog blitzing through the Captain’s warband and crippling it in a couple of turns before the rest of the rest of the army could get involved. As such, Fraecht and Aldrac’s warbands stomped steadily forward, hoping to get in range for a charge on Pits’ weak left flank.

The Carn Dûm flanks make sure to respect Azog's threat range

The Trackers managed to pick off a Fell Warg, while Thrain got confused and charged two Hunter Orcs. He managed to win his fight on a 6, then promptly killed one of his ‘opponents’. I’d included Thrain in the list purely for the additional deployment drop, but killing my own models starts to make it feel less worthwhile!

Thrain being an absolute menace

The Turn 3 Priority roll was crucial, and Carn Dûm ‘won’ it. This was a serious issue for them, because it meant that they had to commit to a course of action and allow Pits to respond to them. If they moved up with the Captain’s warband, then Azog would come storming in and tear it apart, while Pits’ left flank kept their distance from the powerful Carn Dûm right. Instead, the Carn Dûm left opted to hold position while the right pressed forward, hoping to smash through the Hunter Orcs opposing them and get a quick lead in the kills. That plan was helped by two Hunter Orcs being picked off by Trackers, increasing the Carn Dûm numerical advantage to 12 models.

In return, Pits swung everything (except Thrain) hard to their left. Azog hurtled forward to charge next turn, while behind him came the rest of the army. The Hunter Orc Captain led his warband into the fray, setting up favourable fights but mostly bouncing. The Captain himself spent a Might to kill a Warrior of Carn Dûm, although this opened up a gap for Aldrac to potentially exploit next turn. Oops.

The Carn Dûm left flank will need to hustle to get into the fight after this

Turns 4-5: The hammer blow

Turn 4 opened with a significant Heroic Move-off, which went Carn Dûm’s way. This allowed Aldrac to slam into the Hunter Orc Captain, who he promptly wounded three times to kill outright. Nice! However, the rest of the Carn Dûm right failed to live up to their leader’s heroism, killing only a single Hunter Orc and losing three Carn Dûm Warriors and a Warg Rider (despite Fraecht’s 5+ save being active)!

Aldrac absolutely stomps the poor Hunter Orc Captain

Moreover, Azog had slammed into the ‘hinge’ of the Carn Dûm line, and quickly set to work demonstrating why he’s the scariest thing in the North. Calling his free Heroic combat, he shredded two Warriors of Carn Dûm before taking advantage of a small positioning error to zip around the back of the Carn Dûm line and ride down two Orc spearmen. Coupled with another Warrior of Carn Dûm falling to two Hunter Orcs, this reduced the 8 models holding this gap down to just 3, facing an angry tide of Hunter Orcs and Gundabads.

Before...

Even worse, Azog’s cheeky little spin had put him clear behind the Carn Dûm battleline, with a clear path straight to Fraecht and the Carn Dûm banner. Oh no.

...and after

Pits took full advantage by auto-winning Priority on Turn 5 with Surprise Attack, letting Azog slam straight into the key Carn Dûm support pieces. The casualties on the right flank last turn had also opened up gaps in the Carn Dûm lines, and the Hunter Orcs in the Captain’s warband were able to spill in and tie up the rest of the warriors on that flank. Aldrac was tagged by a Gundabad, in a position where his free Heroic Combat would only let him go into a single enemy more; and if he did so, he’d end up right in Azog’s shadow. Scary!

Azog gets straight into the critical support models, while Hunter Orcs swarm through the gaps

The Carn Dûm Captain had called a March, and his warband were racing round the woods to the main clash in the centre and right. However, they were still at least a turn away from the battle, and in the meantime the Hunter Orcs took full advantage by wiping out the Carn Dûm centre and beginning to clear out the Trackers from the woods (although they did lose a Fell Warg and Hunter Orc to the Trackers’ shooting and combat!).

And on the Carn Dûm right, things went even worse than I’d expected for them. Azog gleefully butchered first Fraecht (to remove his 5+ Malbeth save) and then the banner, before riding down a stray Orc for good measure. Aldrac initially bounced off the Gundabad he was facing, having to spend two Might to confirm the kill and allow him his free Heroic Combat next turn. In the meantime, he spun around the ruin, looking to put distance and models between him and Azog while he tore into the Hunter Orc left flank.

Aldrac is forced to burn 2 Might to put distance between himself and Azog

Unfortunately for Aldrac, the warriors around him utterly disintegrated. With their formation broken and their support pieces slain, the Carn Dûm warriors found themselves rolling less dice than the Hunter Orcs in every fight across the line. This translated into losing 5 models for no kills back, even without counting Azog’s devastating charge. This reduced Carn Dûm’s right flank to Aldrac and a single Orc, and Broke them to boot!

High casualties for the Men, and Pits has only taken 9 losses

The hammer had well-and-truly fallen, and things were looking dire for Carn Dûm. 

Turns 6-7: The age of Men is over, the time of the Orc has come

The main battlefield at the start of Turn 6

Mercifully for Carn Dûm, they won Priority on the following turn and managed to pass Break checks for both Aldrac and the Carn Dûm Captain. This ensured that only a lone Warg Rider ran away, and let them pick their engagements as best as they could.

On the right, this amounted to getting Aldrac into two Hunter Orcs and screening him off from a direct charge by Azog with the singular Orc Warrior. Azog could still Heroic Combat into Aldrac, but at least he wouldn’t be able to call a Heroic Strike of his own. This did mean that Aldrac needed to burn his last Might point on a Heroic Strike, which he did reluctantly to try to stay alive for one turn more. Azog rode down the lone Orc, before opting to Combat into Aldrac’s fight anyway. Aldrac contemplated the heroic choice of fighting normally and trying to one-shot Azog, but in the end decided to shield; without any Might left, the chance of him failing to get a ‘6’ was far too high, and if he did botch he would be instantly taken out. Aldrac managed to Strike up above Azog and got the ‘6’ he needed, but was now out of Might and all alone against the Pale Orc. Yikes.

Honestly, the fact that Aldrac managed to survive this turn was a good outcome for Carn Dûm

Things went only slightly better for Carn Dûm in the centre, where the Carn Dûm Captain’s warband had finally made it into combat. Several Hunter Orcs were unable to squueze through the chokepoint to countercharge, but those that did managed to hack down several more Warriors of Carn Dûm. A Tracker did snipe out one last Hunter Orc though, cementing the Trackers’ status as the Carn Dûm MVPs.

The chokepoint allows the Men to stem the bleeding, but there are still just too many Hunter Orcs

Finally, on the left flank, Thrain had come wandering forward and been charged by two Warriors of Carn Dûm. He promptly won the fight and forced them back, ensuring that Carn Dûm had received absolutely zero bonus from their Glory Seekers special rule. Awesome.

Evil won Priority on Turn 7, but the Carn Dûm Captain spent his last Might point to move first and get his Stand Fast up. This kept the majority of the Carn Dûm troops nearby in the fight, but they were now so outnumbered that any hope of a fightback was ended. 3 more Warriors of Carn Dûm were dragged down, quartering the army and ensuring the game would end this turn.

Thrain providing a Stand Fast for the nearby Carn Dûm models. How strange!

A weird interaction on this flank was that Thrain had failed his Courage test at the start of the turn and was thus being controlled by Carn Dûm. As far as I could tell, this meant that he had to take a Break check (which he passed), and could then call a Stand Fast to keep the nearby Warriors of Carn Dûm in the fight. They, in turn, couldn’t charge him again, because he was currently a friendly model for them. Weird!

The gang chop Aldrac to pieces in predictable fashion

Finally, on the right flank, Aldrac was alone and Mightless against Azog and his buddies. This went exactly how you might have expected, with Azog effortlessly riding down the Carn Dûm leader to seal a massive 12:0 victory for the Pits of Dol Guldur!

The battlefield at game's end

Strategy review

Ouch! This game looked tight right up until Turn 5, where Pits stepped on the gas and killed 12 Carn Dûm models (including Fraecht and the banner) for only three losses back. In truth, however, I think this devastation was a likely product of four critical moments earlier in the game.

A quite disproportionate casualty pile

First, Carn Dûm deploying the Captain’s warband on the left side of the forest was a huge mistake. The smart move was to put him inside the forest, which would have been awkward but would have shaved at least a turn off his troops getting into the fray.

Second, losing Priority on Turn 3 meant that Pits had the information they needed to answer the key strategic question of the game: whether to commit their forces to the Carn Dûm right or left. If this Priority had gone the other way then things could have been very different, as it would have been Carn Dûm with the informational advantage on the most important turn of the battle.

These guys being stuck so far away meant that Pits had a local numerical advantage for much of the game

Third, the combats on Turn 4 needed to go much better for Carn Dûm. This was the single turn in which the Carn Dûm right had the advantage over the Pits left, and they botched it. Aldrac obviously did his part by killing the Hunter Orc Captain, but his buddies were unable to give him the support he needed and folded far too quickly. This meant that when Pits auto-won Priority on the next turn, they were able to force one-on-one or better fights all across that flank. And when an Orc Warrior or Warrior of Carn Dûm is all alone against an angry Hunter Orc, that fight tends to go badly very quickly.

The right flank needed to go much better before the centre crumbled

And fourth, the Orc Warrior at the bottom-left of the above picture needed to be just a little bit to the left. This would have forced Azog to Heroic Combat into this Orc and the Warrior of Carn Dûm above them, instead of spinning around to the second Orc Warrior. In turn, that would have meant that Azog might not have been able to go directly into Fraecht and the banner on the next turn, ensuring that at least one of them would have survived to continue providing their crucial buffing auras to the Carn Dûm right flank. What a big difference such a tiny positioning error made!

Picture this, but with Azog a couple inches to the left and an Orc standing in front of him

Once those four factors were in place, the slaughter of Turn 5 was always likely. And from that point on the outcome was never really in doubt, as Pits was holding all the cards: a numerical advantage, superior positioning, better troops and the power of a full-Might Azog.

Army reviews

Not much to say about the Pits list; it performed in classic Pits fashion, by using Azog to bust a hole and take out critical pieces before swarming everything within reach with Hunter Orcs. Simple, predictable, and utterly devastating. I need to remember to keep Thrain out of charge distance of my Hunter Orcs, but aside from that it really put in the work.

I have less pleasant things to say about the Army of Carn Dûm, unfortunately.

Starting with the good stuff, the Trackers felt great! They killed about 6 Hunter Orcs and Wargs between them, which is an amazing effort for 25 points of archers. If I was to run this list again, I’d definitely swap out a Warrior of Carn Dûm and an Orc for three more Trackers.

Right to the end, those Trackers were chipping off kills with their little S2 bows

Aldrac also seemed solid, and I got the sense that he could be really excellent in the right build. One-shotting the Hunter Orc Captain (in fact killing him twice over thanks to Mighty Blow!) was awesome, and I could see him Heroic Combatting through the lines to kill a critical enemy piece in certain matchups. Not being mounted holds him back a lot, but he seemed worthwhile overall.

And finally, the 6” banner buff was great. It definitely helped hold the Carn Dûm lines together in the initial clashes on Turn 3 and 4, before Azog unceremoniously rode it down.

The banner ceases to have an impact on the game

Unfortunately, the rest of the list was deeply disappointing. The battleline really didn’t feel great, and while its numbers were solid they didn’t feel high enough to justify how weak the warriors felt. A F3/D5/S4 battleline is fine, but it means you’re starting from behind against a huge swathe of lists. Any F4 line (almost all of them these days) is going to have a big edge, and the D5 basically cancels out the S4 because it means that both sides are likely wounding each other on 5’s. All of which would be fine if these warriors weren’t the same cost as a Black Númenórean! The only thing the warriors have going for them over other mid-range infantry is the Glory Seekers special rule, which is going to be useless in almost every matchup. F3 warriors are not generally a huge threat to enemy heroes, especially when you’re fielding them without any magical support!

And speaking of magical support, and thus of Fraecht, he was actually worse than I’d expected. While obviously its not his fault that he got assassinated by Azog, the lack of Heroic Defence (found on many comparable models) meant that he had no way to stall for a turn once he had gotten caught out of position. His buffs requiring Will points (and needing to be declared at the very start of the turn) meant that he had to try and pick whether it was going to be worthwhile in advance. This meant that the defensive buff wasn’t up on Turn 3, because it didn’t seem worth spending the Might for. Moreover, it failed to even save anyone on Turn 4 when it was affecting a heap of fights. Malbeth’s aura is so busted because the models it’s saving are themselves quite resilient, so that you’re generally only doing a single wound to them when you win the fight (giving him a good chance to save a model). With D5, however, it’s much more likely that the warriors suffer multiple wounds in a turn, which is always going to be hard for Fraecht to save.

The right flank and centred collapsed even with Fraecht's buff to increase their resilience!

Overall, you can basically consider his buff to be equivalent to +1D on the frontline models. It’s not an exact analogy (the buff is better against S4 and worse against S3), but it’s about right. So, with that in mind, and given that his profile is otherwise probably worth about 25-30 points, would you spend 35-40 points to make your frontline D6 for 4 specific turns (assuming that he doesn’t get assassinated, Sap Willed, or otherwise inconvenienced)? It’s not a great trade.

And finally, for one final dunk on the Legion: +1 Fight value on the turn after you kill a hero is so useless. Aldrac is the only model in the list with any hero-killing abilities, and the circumstances in which Aldrac will kill a hero and then immediately need F6 on the next turn seem very rare. That ability could have stacked, or been an aura of +1 Fight for all nearby troops, and it would have been entirely fine. It’s frustratingly conservative design for a potentially very interesting ability.

Aldrac was F6 here, for all the good it did him

In sum then, I wasn’t impressed by the Army of Carn Dûm. Hopefully next edition they get the buffs they need to live up to their potential.

Azog ascendant at last

With one final spring of his Warg, Azog bore down on his prey and struck. The blow was well-aimed, and the human leader was smashed to the ground where he lay still. Turning away from his kill, the Pale Orc surveyed the battlefield. Everywhere the Men and their Orc allies were laying down their arms or being hacked down by his warriors. Victory was his.

Spurring his Warg to spring atop an outcropping, Azog roared to his host:

‘To Dol Guldur!’

I hope you enjoyed this battle report, with all the strategic and army-balance musings afterwards. If you’ve had experiences playing with or against the new Carn Dûm (especially when seeded into a vanilla Angmar list) I’d love to hear them.

And until next time, may your positioning always be as perfect as it needs to!

Comments

  1. Can't believe GW made the terrible profile that Fräecht is. And the warrior profile is 1 pts too expensive. Carn Dum was never intended to be competitive for some reason. Hope its better in the next edition.

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    1. Yeah, it is weird how underpowered they made them all. I get that any profile can be made busted in Angmar, but it's not like you can combo them with the old Shade or anything. Just weird

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  2. I admire your commitment to actually testing these lists that the pundits in the community think are trash.

    Did the army of Carn Dûm just feel like a sub-par Army of Dunland?

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    1. Thank you! I think it ended up playing fairly differently to Dunland: it has cheap spears but no F4, but it's only got a single combat hero, it's more reliant on Fraecht's buffs in one specific area, it's got better shooting and worse mobility (no Crebain), and it doesn't get the once-per-game big damage boost that can just cripple an enemy list. So, lots of differences, but probably worse overall

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  3. Just an FYI, with the carn dum legion, you get +1 fight on your heroes when you kill an enemy model, not when you kill a hero.

    It's a shame that carn dum didn't too well, the models are amazing and the lore is really cool. I'm still going to build a force of them hoping they are better in the new edition.

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    1. Do they? I've heard mixed things on that so far, but my book hasn't arrived yet for me to confirm it. I guess that's a marginal improvement if so, but it's still pretty weak when it's only affecting Aldrac and maybe the Captain in a small way.

      The nice thing about a new edition is everything's on the table for potential improvements!

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  4. I love your blog. However it seems azog was given free white warg for this game ;) (at least it doesnt appear in the army list while the model and the 10 inch bubble sugest he actually had his warg)

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    1. Thankfully just me forgetting to click the White Warg button on Tabletop Admiral, not a misplay; both armies were 550 points, so it was all fair and balanced

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