Hall of the Mountain King: Army Review of the TMAT Ettenmoors

An army of Giants? Sign me up! (The One Wiki to Rule Them All)

Today’s article is something entirely different; instead of writing about MESBG’s actual armies, I’m instead going to be commenting on the amazing rules for the Ettenmoors put out by the guys over at TMAT. This new faction is a wild composite of the different monsters and gribblies that live in this area of Middle Earth, and is packed full of everything from Stone Giants to Carrock Deer. I’m not going to go through and explain the concept much beyond that because they do a much better job in their original post, so make sure to have their rules open in another tab while you read this. Or just go in blind, I don’t own you. Either way, I’m going to look at the the profiles from the bottom up, working my way through the warriors to the heroes and finally to how the army seems to fit together as a whole and with Allies. I’m also probably going to come across as quite critical, but that’s very much not how I feel about the list; it’s extremely fun, it’s very creative, and the internal and external balance actually seems really good overall. But nitpicking is fun, so let’s jump right into it!

Beorn has had a bit of a downgrade (TMAT)

The first balance note that jumped out at me when reading these rules was the pricing of the Carrock Bears and Deer. The Bear seems very cheap for its profile: it hits vastly harder than a Berserker on the charge and is pretty equivalent otherwise, and it’s more resilient in a large majority of situations. The larger base is a disadvantage, as is the Courage, but I think that overall the Bear is just a bit too cheap. After all, the next cheapest W2 warrior is the Giant Spider, which trades dramatically worse killing power on the charge, reduced mobility and a much higher price tag for its extra mobility. I feel like a cost of about 17 would probably be fair a bit fairer here, as the Spiders are likely still a small amount better.

Ten points is a lot for a model that can't really kill anything

On the other hand, the Deer seem quite overpriced. Compared to Wild Wargs, they are almost 50% more expensive and have worse Strength and Defence, two very significant stats. Woodland Creature and Graceful are useful, especially for a primarily objective-grabbing model, but they hardly seem worth three points to me. You could make the case that they should be more expensive because of how necessary they are to the army list, but I think that would be missing the ease with which you can ally in a Warg Chieftain and some Wild Wargs for a big saving and a bunch more killing power. I would definitely drop down the Deer to around 7 points;  you'd then be quite equivalent to a Wild Warg, gaining some useful mobility boosts in exchange for becoming less dangerous and easier to kill.

'Let's see, which niche special rule should we give this 3 Might Captain?' (Warhammer Community)

We then come to four monsters (well, sort of) in the 60-80 point range that are quite easy to compare. Firstly, I'd like to congratulate TMAT for how distinct all of these very similar profiles seem, that's quite an impressive design feat. I don't think the balance is quite right between them, but the fact that they all feel so different is really very cool. Diversifying similar models has historically been a thing that even Games Workshop has struggled with, so to do it so well here is very impressive.

2 Wounds ain't much, but they're probably enough

Surprisingly enough, I actually think the Cave Troll is probably the strongest of the four. Compared to the Stone Troll, it gains F6, W3 and C3 for 15 points. That's probably a net gain overall, although it's a small enough one that the Stone Troll should still be viable. The Stone Troll also benefits from synergy with the Stone Troll Brute’s Treasure Hoard, as we’ll come to later, so it’s probably in a perfect spot if the change I suggest to that gets made.

This Troll is a sneaky boi

On the other hand, while the Snow Troll gains a bunch of neat benefits, it seems hard to really justify its decreased combat efficiency relative to the Cave Troll. Courage 5 is genuinely useful, and Move 8/Woodland Creature do help out a bit with mobility; I just wonder how often you're going to get much benefit from Stalk Unseen without really working for it, and getting to charge straight out of cover while still being able to see the enemy seems like something that won't happen that often. If nothing else, it's only going to happen at most once per game unless something really weird happens. This is assuming that the rule is meant to read something like 'if the Snow Troll benefitted from Stalk Unseen in the previous turn against the model it charged.' Otherwise I think you would benefit from the rule on any turn that there is any enemy model outside of 6" with obstructed line of sight, regardless of how well your target could see you. Unfortunately, when the rule does trigger, you're still left at the same Fight value as the Cave Troll and hitting much less hard. The effective S8 of the Cave Troll just seems so much more reliably useful overall than the niche benefits the Snow Troll brings along. This could probably be fixed by just upping the model to Fight 6 to give it a genuine niche, or even just dropping the price a little.

Note the A2 and S4. Those are some useful special rules, but they don't outweigh the 'Half-Troll but worse' statline

I also feel like I don't quite get the Werewolf. They're kind of fast, but not enough to gain much of an edge. They don't hit very hard, with only S4 and A2 and no way of boosting that. And they seem resilient, with an effective W4, but with only D5 they're actually still worse off in a lot of cases than a Cave Troll. Fell Sight is really useful, but ultimately you're just not likely to kill very much, and that seems too big of a downside for a 65-point model. I think that these are actually quite comparable to a Half Troll in many respects: they don't hit as hard, but are faster and a good chunk tougher, so they should probably cost about 50% more. That would imply a cost of 35-40 points, which seems pretty fair to me. That would also let them fill a very different role to everything else in the list, alleviating the difficulty of having 4 comparable (if admirably well-distinguished) models around this price point. Alternatively, giving them Monstrous Charge or some other damage boost and scaling them up to M10 might be enough to justify their current price tag. They’d then have a defined role as hunters, hurtling out from cover to pounce on an exposed foe. As is though, it seems really unlikely that a Werewolf will ever kill their point's worth, which is a difficult position to be in for a model that doesn't bring much else to the table.

Not too much to say, just a nice and well-balanced profile

Next up is the Two-Headed Troll, which I think compares pretty equitably to the Mordor Troll. It's about as resilient (3.5 Wounds v D7, probably a wash), and Fearless/Resistant is probably about as good as S7. Sick. 

There's nothing unreasonable here, but that price tag is very generous for a monster with 2 Might 

However, the difficulty comes from comparison with the very underpriced Stone Troll Brute, which is equivalently durable thanks to Fate, trades F7 for effective S8 and swaps Fearless/Resistant for the incredible boost that is two Might points with March (and a Will). At 100 points with the hand-and-a-half club, these guys are massively better than both the Mordor Troll and its Two-Headed equivalent above. Realistically, the Brute isn't hugely worse than a Troll Chieftain, and those are a full 40% more expensive! I think that these guys should genuinely go up at least 25 points or so, as those two Might points make such a massive difference. I should also say that I love the Troll Hoard idea, but think it's a little too expensive for something the enemy can avoid in a lot of scenarios. I think I'd probably raise the price of the model by about 25-30 points but bake in the price of a Treasure Trove for free. At that point it would have a more defined role than ‘Like the other monsters, but better’, and would also be a fun force-multiplier for your other Stone Trolls.

Sauron called, he wants his Defence back

Next up is the Stone Giant, which I’m a little torn on. They’re vastly more durable than a Gundabad Troll, being able to take 2.25 times as many S4 hits and 4.5 times as many S3 hits; D10 is extremely powerful, and there’s a reason that only Sauron has it normally. They also probably hit about as hard as a Gundabad Troll, trading one point of Fight value and another of effective Strength for the crazy power of Monstrous Charge at S8. And C6 and Resistant to Magic get thrown in almost for free on top of that, so they’re looking like pretty sweet deals. On the other hand, if we scale them up by more than ten points or so then we end up comparing to a Troll Chieftain, who is much scarier in many respects and still almost unkillable. I’d probably raise them 5-10 points overall, but maybe their F6 is enough of a downside that they deserve their current spot. I’d love to hear arguments either way, and I could definitely be convinced that Gundabad Trolls just aren’t that good anyway.

Sneaky boi, now with Strike and 3 Might!

Similarly, I have no idea where I stand on the Snow Troll Chieftain. Most of its stats are literally just those of a Cave Troll, and (as discussed earlier) I’m not sold that their special rules really add much value here. But 3 Might with Strike is very good, and C5 is great on a hero with Stand Fast and Will. I think they’re probably pretty fairly costed, as they seem to compare alright to Burdur who is around this price point. They’d also compare pretty well to the Stone Troll Brute with its price hike, swapping out the Treasure Trove and Burly and paying a bit extra to gain some useful utility rules and an extra Might. Plus, they play a really useful role in the army list as a way to answer big heroes that won't cost you 200 points.

He's angry, but I'm not convinced he's actually any good

Again, I feel like I just don’t get the Werewolf Chieftain. It’s relatively fast, it hits kinda hard, and it’s very resilient, but what’s the point of it? Being a wolf and all, I felt I should compare it to a pair of Wild Warg Chieftains, which cost only slightly more combined. The Werewolf is about as resilient as the two of them put together, and moves about as fast. He can affect more models with his Heroic Actions and potentially gain Might back, but he’s starting with half the Might. And while he’s F6, he’s also only S5, so it seems really hard for him to outkill the two Wargs. I just feel like this profile needs something a bit more to make up for the fact that it’s not amazing at killing things. To jump very cross-faction, he’s about the same price as Dáin on pig, who is more resilient, will outkill the Chieftain massively, and brings a whole welter of powerful buffs and utility rules. I just don’t see why you would ever choose to field this guy as is, and think that like his smaller kin, he needs to transition to being either much cheaper (120 points or so?) or gain some powerful abilities to let him kill his point’s worth. Even M10 and Monstrous Charge would make him a really scary Gûlavhar-lite surprise killer, gaining in durability and efficiency but losing out in mobility and hitting power. Maybe I’m massively undervaluing Fell Sight, but I think there’s a lot missing from this guy.

There are some hefty statlines in these profiles

We then have what’s effectively a ‘big-three’ of the Two-Headed Troll Brute, the Stone Giant Craftsman and the Stone Giant King. The Brute is the hardest-hitting of the 3 when charged, with S7 and Bane of Kings likely beating out the effective S10 of the Stone Giants, and A4 is as good as it ever is. The Monstrous Charge of the Giants makes a huge difference on the charge though, so it probably ends up pretty even on the damage front. The Giants are much more resilient, even assuming that the Brute buys some armour; the Brute may effectively have an extra two Wounds (depending on how his rule interacts with Fate), but he’ll normally be about three times as easy to hurt in the first place. They’re all about equally brave and vulnerable to magic, although the 2 Will of the Craftsman does put him behind there. And only the King has an advantage in terms of Heroic Actions available, although both Giants have that critical third Might point. Overall, I can see the arguments for either the Brute or the King. The Brute probably does hit that bit harder than the Giants, and is possibly still as resilient as you need to survive the game. The King brings Strike to really terrify enemy heroes and monsters, is easily the most resilient model and is the ultimate solution to any concerns about being Broken. The Craftsman, on the other hand, loses some useful Heroic stats, Strike, and a powerful special rule in exchange for what’s effectively a ribbon benefit and quite a small price drop. I think that if you’re planning on investing around 200 points on a monster, you might as well make sure you get the good one. Overall, I like all three of these models a lot, but I think the Craftsman needs something actually useful to distinguish him from the King beyond being a little cheaper. And while the Stone Giant King is pretty cool, I do think something to really emphasise the grandeur of a literally walking mountain king would be nice. I’m sure not giving him Harbinger or an equivalent rule was a balance/lore decision, but I’d be pretty terrified by a walking mountain, let alone their King. It would make him really feel like the capstone to a list, as opposed to just being the most brutal combatant in an army packed with them.

It's cute, but it's not going to really impact on a competitive decision

The final part of the list is its Army Bonus, and honestly I’m not that excited. I’m a big fan of theming it around throwing stones, but I think it needs a lot more power if you’re looking to properly disincentivise allying in some Bat Swarms, for example. You could go a lot of ways with this, but I think a really interesting option to balance out the issues with pure Ettenmoors might be to let monster models count as three models for the purposes of claiming objectives. The army is very much one tied to the land, so it would feel nice and fluffy to me, and it would really incentivise a player to go hard on the big monsters. I don’t think it would be too strong, because realistically such a list is going to struggle in a lot of games anyway, but it would make life a lot easier for a player looking to lean into the army’s theme. This could be implemented instead of or on top of the existing bonus, I don’t think it would be overpowered either way.

With all this said, let’s make some lists! I’m gonna use the tweaked costs I’ve suggested to make these, as otherwise I think there’d be a few too many Stone Troll Brutes, for example. There are also many different ways that these lists could be run, which I think is a great credit to the TMAT team.

The obvious way to run a pure Ettenmoors list, to my mind, is to centre it on a big hitting model, back it up with a few smaller monsters and then run some Bears and Deer to claim ground. At 500, that might look something like:

Trolls and Bears

Two-Headed Troll Brute with armour (180)

Snow Troll Chieftain (135)

8 Carrock Bears (136)

7 Carrock Deer (49)

That list would have a heap of mobility, some serious hitting power with the Bears and the two monsters, and an okay amount of Might. Numbers are low, but nothing will be able to stop the Two-Headed Troll Brute at these points, and the Snow Troll makes a great answer to hero models with Strike. This list could be scaled up easily enough to 700 by adding a Stone Giant, Stone Troll and another Deer, or even higher by stacking on another hero monster or two. It’s as the list gets higher that I’d really start to think about the capacity of a powered-up Werewolf Chieftain to dart out of cover and smash down an enemy Wizard or something, although he’d definitely need M10 and Monstrous Charge to be viable in that role.

This guy would be pretty hard to stop (D&D Lore Wiki)

Alternatively, you could run a list focussed on the Stone Trolls, looking something like:

Send Forth the Hoards

 

2 Stone Troll Brutes with hand-and-a-half clubs and Treasure Troves (250)

3 Stone Trolls (180)

5 Deer (35)

2 Bears or 5 more Deer (34/35)

This list has a brutal amount of raw power, especially near the two Troves it can place anywhere on the map. The rest of the list is essentially backup for the 5 Trolls, claiming objectives and preventing Traps as they sweep the enemy off the board. The list would struggle with enemy heroes, however, as Stone Trolls seem extremely vulnerable to them with only D6 and W2. You could trade out one Stone Troll Brute for a Snow Troll with some tweaking, or you could bring some allies instead:

 

I Get By With a Little Help From My Friends

 

Stone Troll Brute with Trove, club (125)

2 Stone Trolls (120)

2 Carrock Deer (14)

2 Barrow Wights (100)

17 Orcs with 8 shields, 7 spears, 2 bows, banner (127)

2 Wild Wargs (14)

Here, we have the Stone Trolls as a hard-hitting core to an Angmar list, bringing massive killing power to a decently large horde with good answers to heroes. It’s got some speed, 24 models, a banner, magic and a lot of killing power. With only one Trove, you probably should find ten points to pick up the heavier clubs for the Stone Trolls, but the list likely functions without them. Going up in points I’d add back another Stone Troll and Brute, and then probably the Witch King above 800 or so.

Finally, the obligatory monster mash that would be absolutely reliant on the Army Bonus being tweaked:

 

The Hills are Alive

Stone Giant King (200)

4 Stone Giants (500)

 

Definitely not competitive, but a charge from these guys would be a truly scaring sight. Sure, with only 3 Might it’s only going to happen once or twice, but at least your games would be short.

Aragorn definitely doesn't want to take these guys on (Blue132)

Overall? I think this whole army list is exceptionally fun, and I’d love to play it. There are a few little kinks that I think need ironing out, but honestly, I’ve seen Games Workshop content that was a lot less balanced than this. Good work TMAT!

I hope you enjoyed this somewhat unusual article; it literally started out as a comment over on TMAT before I realised it wouldn’t fit in Blogger’s character limit, even spread out over about five posts.  What are your thoughts on the list? Are Stone Trolls hopelessly broken? Are you annoyed that you need to bring a Stone Giant babysitter so Beorn can lead his Bears into battle? Did the alliteration in the last sentence make you angrier than a Werewolf Chieftain? I’d love to hear from you, and I’m sure the TMAT guys would too over here.

Until next time, may your monsters always roll sixes!