The Bolg and The Beautiful: Defending The Profiles of The Hobbit

 

Reviews of the Hobbit trilogy can generously be described as mixed, and almost everyone is at least a little disappointed in them. Controversially enough, I believe that disappointment often trickles down into how we think about MESBG. It is a commonly held opinion that the Hobbit-era profiles tend to be the beneficiaries of substantial power creep, making them undeservedly better than their equivalents in the Armies of the Lord of the Rings book. However, I believe that in almost all cases these profiles accurately reflect the capacities of the characters in question, as depicted in the book and especially in the films. This is a controversial claim, but to me it is clear that these profiles are almost always faithful to what we saw on screen. Whether they should have been depicted that way in the films, of course, is an entirely separate discussion. To back up my big claim, I’m going to go through all of the unpopular profiles for the Forces of Good and Evil, respectively. As mentioned, I’m treating the movies as (somewhat regrettable) canon, and judging the profiles primarily for how they reflect this canon.

 

Thandruil


In case it wasn't clear, Thandruil is "The Beautiful" from the title (The One Wiki to Rule Them All)

The major complaint against Thandruil is that his F7 and absurd number of Attacks are out of proportion to his status as “some random backwater Elf” (a rough quote of the description often given). I would critique this firstly by pointing out that within the lore, he’s hardly a “random.” He was almost certainly born during the First Age, as prince of one of the great Elven kingdoms. This makes him already one of the oldest and most illustrious characters alive, being from the very same generation as Galadriel herself. While it doesn’t appear that he travelled into the West, he was enough of a badass to fight alongside Gil-galad during the Last ALliance, and inherited rulership of one of the largest and most powerful remaining Elven lands in the aftermath. He is clearly a powerful Elf Lord at the height of his power, which to me is already a compelling case for some good stats.

Tauriel was pretty clearly outclassed here (Elcharlot) 

Moreover, in the films we see him take on a number of enemies, from a swarm of Gundabad Orcs to Tauriel, briefly. In each case he is demonstrably leagues above his opponents, and even F6 A3 Tauriel can hardly even see his blade before it cuts her bow in two. This dude is portrayed as an absolute blender, and honestly, I think his rules reflect that. It is potentially arguable that his auric buffs are stronger than required by his onscreen feats, but it’s quite difficult to assess this. Either way, I think that his actions in the films adequately back up his outrageous profile.

 

Dáin

Look how he's holding that hammer! The dude is totally jacked! (WorthPoint)

My main defence of Dáin’s combat ability is simply that it’s not out of proportion to other Dwarves. He has F6, the same as even generic Kings, and has the A3 you’d expect of any powerful fighting character. His S5 and Burly are unusual, but readily justified by how easily he swings that hammer of his around onscreen. And his defensive stats, while formidable, are pretty standard for Dwarf Lords. Similarly, his Courage buff seems justified by the loyalty with which his warriors rallied to him, and Master of Battle is a great representation of the speed with which he adapts to changing circumstances and issues orders to his troops. Overall, I think that Dáin’s onscreen feats easily back up his profile, powerful though it is.

 

The Other Iron Hills Models


Pictured: the Platonic ideal of a shieldwall (Todor)

Now, obviously, Iron Hills are a kind of terrifying army. But their status as the most competitive Dwarven faction is, to me, entirely justified by their in-universe reputation. Their stats are basically those of elite, well-trained Dwarves, reflecting both their performance onscreen and the background for the army. They have Shieldwall because, well, they formed a sick shieldwall. Moreover, their devotion to martial perfection supports their cornucopia of weird supporting tools. Dwarves are renowned for their ingenuity, so I can readily accept the presence of powerful war machines like the Ballista and Chariot. Even the Goat Riders are no more dominant than their devastating charge onscreen would predict. While these Dwarves are definitely miserable to face, they are no more so than one would expect them to be after watching the last movie. Which was itself, admittedly, pretty miserable.

 

Bard

Yeah, this bow should definitely be S3 (The One Wiki to Rule Them All)

Bard’s close combat stats are actually very reasonable. He’s roughly on par with Éomer, which seems a fair comparison. Both are heroes of men without Númenórean descent, who hack their way through plenty of enemies onscreen. Bard fights harder in defence of his daughters, while Éomer fights harder if one of his family is slain. Bard provides much better auric buffs, but that seems fair: he’s a demonstrably excellent leader, who rallied the shattered people of a sunken town into a real fighting force. The only area in which I think Games Workshop were too generous is with his bow. His archery prowess is reasonably depicted, but there is no way that his bow is better than anything produced by the Elves. If Legolas can mow through hundreds of Orcs with a S3 bow, then Bard could have done so too.

 

Lake Town Militia

   
I mean, there is some armour there (Games Workshop)

Now, this one I do have to agree with. Lake Town Militia should probably be D3 instead of D4, because they are very rag-tag. I could argue that they are seen to don a small amount of armour before the battle, in a similar fashion to the Rohirrim militia do before Helm’s Deep and the Rohirrim have always been D4. But I think there is enough difference between the armours of the respective groups that the Lake Town Militia would have been better off at D3.

 

Azog

   
You've gotta admit, this was not a fight between two equal combatants (A Tolkienist's Perspective)

Azog, on the other hand, I will definitely go in to bat for. The Defiler takes on Thror, Thrain and Thorin, the latter a number of times. All three are powerful Dwarf Kings, with justifiably impressive statlines and “3s in all the right places.” Azog absolutely rips through them all, often defeating them with just a single blow and with no difficulty whatsoever. His statline, therefore, must reflect a character who can take on some of the stronger heroes in the game without slowing. Sure, Thorin eventually brings him down, but Thorin was clearly the underdog in that fight, as he would be if they were to have it out on the tabletop. Yes, Azog is just some nobody Orc in the lore, but he’s portrayed onscreen as vastly more dangerous than a bunch of F6 A3 power heroes. If that doesn’t justify his F7 then I don’t know what will.

 

Bolg


"Why does it hurt so much?" "Because Bolg was F7" (Kimberley Lewis)

Bolg is a murkier case, but I still think he deserves his ludicrous stats. In the films, he faces Legolas (twice), Fili and Tauriel. The latter two he rips through without breaking a sweat, winning the first combat against Tauriel easily and killing Fili with ease when he tries to intervene. Sure, Tauriel manages to drag him off the cliff with her, but it’s pretty clear that if Legolas hadn’t intervened she would have been done for. Ignoring that Hollywood is unable to write female characters without making them be “saved” by men, Bolg showed that he was clearly superior to a F6 A3 hero with a second Striking friend to boot.

The two duels with Legolas are a little weirder. On the one hand, Legolas wins the second and arguably the first, something that would never happen in game. However, we have to remember that the Legolas onscreen effectively reflects the old “Megolas” profile, which had F7 and A3. Bolg and Legolas manage to fight each other to basically a standstill in the first duel, and the Elf only narrowly wins the second. That to me seems a reasonable depiction of a contest between two equal combatants, which would support Bolg being himself F7 and A3. While this is a more complex argument than the one for his father, I think that the evidence available supports Bolg’s current stats.

 

Hunter Orcs


2 swords = 2 Attacks (Games Workshop)

It’s difficult to assess how dangerous a warrior model is when most of their portrayal in the films involves being diced up by powerful heroes; after all, even the mighty Uruk-hai still get sliced up by Aragorn pretty easily. However, there is one scene in which we do see the Hunter Orcs take on warrior models: the barrel-riding scene. Before all the bizarre GoPro footage, we get to see the Hunter Orcs absolutely overwhelm the Elven defenders of the sluice gate in a single round of combat. That to me supports a S4 A2 profile, while the subsequent fightback of the Mirkwood Rangers supports their lowly F3 and D4. Plus, they have two swords: that always means A2, right?

 

Bonus: The “Aragorn” Argument

One common comparison that is often used to complain about the inflated stats of Hobbit-era characters is that of Aragorn. If Strider himself is only F6 A3, then what right do these upstarts have to exceed this? However, I would point out that Aragorn isn’t actually shown to be an amazing duellist. In fact, there are basically three enemies that he duels in the films: the Cave Troll, Lurtz, and the Troll Chieftain. He actually seems to lose his fight with the Cave Troll, being slammed against the wall and knocked down when he tries to defend Frodo. He is barely able to overcome Lurtz, a model with F5, and the Troll Chieftain would undoubtedly have killed King Elessar if Frodo had gone a little slower up Mount Doom. These results imply to me that he can’t be more than F6, simply because he’s not shown to be that good at duelling. In fact, it’s hard to really argue that Azog (as seen onscreen) wouldn’t wipe the floor with Aragorn if the two went toe-to-toe, and their profiles bear this out in game. Instead, where Aragorn stands out is his incredible tenacity and resilience; he just keeps going, no matter how exhausted he is and no matter the odds. And lo and behold, what makes Aragorn special in game is his capacity to be Heroic into the dying turns of the battle. Thandruil, Azog and Bolg can all exceed Aragorn’s Fight value without diminishing the King of Gondor, simply because duelling ability isn’t really his thing anyway.


Yeah, he definitely did not win that fight (Wikiwand)   

 

I hope you enjoyed that break from our regular style of articles. I’m sure this will be a controversial one, and I would genuinely love to hear your takes. Are there any other Hobbit-era models with absurdly inflated statlines? Am I wrong and this is all an elaborate Games Workshop ploy to increase sales on new models? I’d love to hear it in the comments below or on Facebook.

Until next time, may your models always feel like the movies!

 

Comments

  1. Great article - though Bolg fought Kili, not Fili (small point). I actually think Aragorn being F6 is just fine - I think he should be Move 7-8" since he's called "Strider" but moves "just as fast as the next guy", but I'm fine with him as-is. The argument for him being F7, I think, is more based on the fact that heroes like Eomer "have to be F5" because "they're not as good as Aragorn," but Captains of Rohan and Rohan Royal Guards can be F5 as well . . . are they as good at fighting as Eomer just because they're charging near Theoden? I don't think so . . .

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    1. I'll be honest, I have never had the slightest idea which of those two twins is which. They're such incredibly generic characters I've never felt the need to tell them apart haha.

      That's actually an interesting idea re Strider. I've always thought of his status as the only one who can consistently call Heroic Marches (well, except for Gamling I guess) kind of fills that role, but I'm sure M7 wouldn't hurt.

      Re Eomer, you're very right that the lack of granulity in the game does make it much harder to fit profiles to models. Would it help Eomer specifically to just have Theoden's buff extended to him? Then he'd stay the best fighter in Rohan, while also being inspired by his uncle in life as in death

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  2. I've never heard anyone complain about hunter orcs. Yeah 2 attacks is cool but they're offset by lousy F3, courage problems and pathetic defense (I play Azogs hunters and seriously, they drop like flies) The 8 points they cost is perfect too, and hunter orcs and wargs are the most overpriced cavalry in the game! (They suck)

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    1. I've heard it many times, though I've never agreed with it. You're absolutely right that they've got too many disadvantages to ever be underpriced, really, and I loath the fact that they have the most expensive mounts in the game when they are the only cavalry to actually lose something by being mounted. I genuinely think the upgrade could go down to 6 or maybe even five points without being at all overpowered. Hell, even four would make them a point more expensive than a Warg Rider for very little gain while mounted

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  3. First of all, I would like to say I really enjoy your articles - they are exceptional! Well written, methodical and entertaining. And most of all, they are always backed up with facts and statistics. And that is why they stand out.
    Yet (sadly) this time, something is different. I cannot help but feel, that this article was somehow written very subjectively? Also, I can hardly agree with most statements, especially with the Aragorn argument and the ˝disproved˝ OP status of the new figures/armies.
    First, the main reason for people to dislike the new armies is the fact, that most heroes are not only too powerful stat-wise, compared to LOTR armies, but are especially OP when their point cost is taken into the account, as well as their entire army/army bonuses. For example, the dwarf army built around Dain, who is WAY to under-priced anyway, is better than any previous dwarf army, even the one of the mighty Khazad-Dum. They have riders, strong crossbowmen, spear support and way to powerful defense, which in most cases, decides the winner. In comparison, all previous dwarf armies lack riders and classic spear support. There is nothing Dain army lacks and it has almost no weak points. Not too OP? The same goes for the new Mirkwood elfs, with their knife-fighters, improved stats of the Thranduil (fairly, in this case), no bow restriction for Mirkwood rangers and the ˝in range of banner˝ effect for their cavalry. Not to mention the addition of armor and shields. An army better than Rivendell's. Another problem is the fight value and all around stats of some heroes, like Bolg and Azog, especially when compared to the likes of Elrond, Glorfindel, Isildur, Elendil, etc., who were all way mightier heroes. It is really a bit farfetched that Bolg and Azog were as skillful fighters as Glorfindel - elf who single-handedly killed a balrog,or even more skillful duelists than Elrond and Isildur, who dared to face Sauron? Even in the Hobbit movies, Elrond is portrayed as an exceptionally skilled fighter, when he is fending of a lightning-quick attacks of the Nazgul at Dol Guldur. And while Azog and Bolg definitely were super strong (strength 5), they could hardly be deemed as skillful (fight value 7). Also, I am surprised that most characters are always compared to Aragorn, like he is the single most badass fighter in the Middle Earth, while in reality, there were quite a few better.
    Thus I would say, that the problem is especially the fact, that one cannot get rid of the feeling, that their stats were a bit enhanced only for the commercial purposes, which gradually happened to most franchises -for example to Pokemon cards, as I remember from my youth. The new cards were always stat-wise better in order to be more appealing. And that whole thing (especially in the case of LOTR and Hobbit) really takes away the narrative and most importantly the consistency of Tolkien. And the biggest plus of his writing was exactly his exceptional consistency. And sorry for the rant, I meant no offense.

    Keep up the good work and all the best!

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    1. Thanks for the comment! I definitely agree that this article was very different to what I normally write, and don't worry, it's a bit of a one-off. It definitely was a bit subjective, I just wanted to articulate my opinion on this controversial issue in a clear way and an article was the best way to do that.

      As far as the armies being OP, you may well be right. I consciously didn't delve into that topic because it's almost more controversial than the lore, and I haven't really explored any of the armies deeply enough to have an informed opinion. You're very right that they have a lot of tools that are unavailable to LoTR armies, and many of those tools are very strong. Yet somehow they don't seem to have really broken through into the top tier of armies from a podium perspective. Perhaps this is simply because of the high startup cost, but that never seemed to stop armies like the Shire back when they were strong. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but even the Iron Hills don't seem to actually podium very often, at least not compared to the big meta darlings (all of whom are LoTR armies, curiously enough).

      As far as the skill aspect goes, I certainly concede that they shouldn't be as skillful as Glorfindel, but also Glorfindel's statline is clearly a bizarre compromise between the lore and gameplay anyway. I mean, could Glorfindel ever take on a Balrog in game? He wouldn't stand a chance, yet that's what he did in the lore. As far as Elendil and Isildur go, sure, they're skillful, but neither of them were especially renowned for their duelling prowess to my knowledge. Brave and powerful leaders, certainly, and good fighters, but to me it's hard to put the case much higher than that. Elrond certainly does show his superiority to the F5 Nazgul, but Bolg and Azog both make F6 enemies look like little kids against them. It's certainly a bit subjective, but to me it looks like there's at least decent justification for the stats GW gave them all. There may well have been a commercial justification as well, but I think they're at least close enough to accurate that I'm willing to defend them.

      And don't worry, next week's article will be absolutely nothing like this

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    2. No problem at all! I also really like your answer to my dilema - very reasonable and very respectfull. Happy to read you soon!

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  4. I think that the statlines themselve are ok. However when you take in account the points values, the equipment and the special rules, it becames way too strong from my point of view. For example, I don't think that the army bonus that gives either Azog or Bolg the master of battle rule is justified, no one can stand against them and it should not be the case - from my point of view they are not even depicted as masters strategists in the films. They cost the same than a naked Aragorn-strider and are way more powerful.

    In the same vein, for the cost of a naked Celeborn (ie no armour, no weapon, 3 will to cast magic and resist) you get a Thranduil with heavy armour and 2 swords (so C7, 4 attacks +1 for each ennemy in the fight after the first). Compared to the others elven heroes, you can give him the crown of kings so he can cast automaticaly 2 magical powers, on a 6, and keep his will points for resisting to magic, so he is arguably a better magicial than the others magician-warriors-type heroes.


    I think that hobbit-era armies and heroes are well balanced against hobbit-era armies and heroes. However, hobbit-era heroes are not well balanced against LotR-era heroes, only the armies points are. So at low points (300-500) where the heroes are a big part of your army points value, hobbit-era heroes who are particularly strong and undercosted are able to wreak havoc against the enemy. At higher points value, the overall strength of the armies balance out, but the heroes of the hobbit-era will nearly always be albe to have upgrades letting them still be upper-class heroes, with better rules AND statlines.

    Obviously, it comes to some weaknesses for the armies themselves (elite point-costly armies, lower body counts even if Azog's legion can mitigate that with 5 points gobelins mercenaries), making it harder for them to play for the objectives as they are often easier to slow down than LotR armies. However, except against maybe the Balrog and Sauron himself, any "kill the general"-like scenario seems heavily favorable to them.

    But I do agree, purely statline-wise its ok.


    It was an interesting reading, making me reflect over the profiles. Thank you for the time and the work you had put into this!

    (Btw, the mandatory "Sorry if my English was bad, it's not my mother tongue".)

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