Moria Listbuilding Part 1: Comparing “The Little Three” Monsters

 

Perhaps more so than any other faction, Moria is defined by its monsters. The Goblin horde component of most Moria lists looks and plays roughly the same, but the monsters that spearhead such a horde can totally reshape how it functions. Your force will play very differently if you’re just buying time for the Balrog to win you the game than if you’re aiming to collapse the enemy flanks with a pair of Cave Drakes, for example. But how do you decide which of these mighty creatures to bring along?


                                                                Unless you're guarding the Balrog's flanks with Cave Drakes, hmmmm

To address this question, I’ve written two articles. The second will focus on the “Big Three” in the Moria list: namely, the Balrog, the Dragon, and the Watcher in the Water. Today’s article, meanwhile, will look at the “Little Three:” the Cave Troll, Dweller in the Dark and Cave Drake. Unlike their big cousins, these three beasties don’t need a list to be built entirely around them; instead, they can be slotted into an existing core in order to provide extra hitting power and "They have a Cave Troll" shock value. All three thus perform a fairly similar role, so can be readily compared. To do so, I’m going to start by looking at what each brings to the table on their own, then dive into what armies would benefit from the inclusion of each.

 

Cave Trolls

                                                Come on, you thought I'd only use this line once this article? (fhlostonsparadise)

The original Moria monster (well, one of the two), the Cave Troll has been around since the game’s very beginning, and it’s only gotten better this edition with the addition of Burly. This special rule, combined with its native S6, makes it arguably the most efficient chaff killer out of the three options being compared here. If it wins the fight, it will be Wounding D6 warriors on 3’s and should be able to pick up kills quite reliably. The D6 of the Troll also makes it twice as resistant to S3 Strikes as the Dweller, which can allow it to rampage for much longer through enemy rank-and-file before being laid low. Finally, its shockingly small base size lets it slot into a battleline quite easily, and its Throw Stones provides a neat way to deal some damage if your opponent is looking to skirmish instead of be beaten up by your Troll. Which, let’s be honest, is a quite reasonable thing for them to do.

                                                            Not what I'd be doing if a Cave Troll was coming for me (Rosa Anna)

However, the price of this raw efficiency is a worrying vulnerability to enemy magic and heroes. With no Will or Resistant to Magic, if your enemy wants to Transfix or Command your Troll (or heaven forbid, Paralyse it!) then there is basically nothing you can do about it. Worse still, C3 means that even a line of Angmar Orcs or Black Númenóreans can pin you down at the most inconvenient times, reducing your offensive efficiency alarmingly in those matchups. Move 6 is fairly slow, and can leave your Troll struggling to engage if the enemy doesn’t play nice, while Throw Stones is more of a consolation prize than anything else. Worst of all, a Cave Troll doesn’t tend to stand up to big heroes as well as the one in Balin’s Tomb. With only F6 and W3, most mid-upper tier heroes can hack down a Troll over a couple of turns of combat, and likely without needing to burn too much Might to do so. If your opponent is able to pull this off, then you’re likely in for a rough ride.

 

Dwellers in the Dark


                                                                          Trolls are scary, but that's something else (Dramatic Katastases)
                                            

These guys are a relatively recent addition to the range, but have developed a firm following in that time. Relative to the Cave Troll, they give up some chaff-killing capabilities to paper over a few of the Troll’s vulnerabilities. In particular, their F7 makes them much more of a concern for enemy heroes, who will likely have to Strike up and end up with less Might to spend on forcing through Wounds or calling Heroic Combats. Resistant to Magic can prove a hassle for enemy spellcasters, and a mighty Courage 7 means they are happy to charge in against anything. They’re a little faster and cheaper than the Trolls (once a hammer is purchased), which lets you fit in an extra model or two and harass the flanks a bit more easily. And most importantly, their capacity to regain Wounds allows them to laugh of the sort of chip damage they’re likely to suffer in most lost combats. This means that they can wade through a sea of enemy warriors without being whittled down, and potentially retreat with its M8 to heal up after going to-to-toe with an enemy hero.


                                                                            Just don't get stuck facing this guy (Emre Ekmekçi)

However, their worryingly low Defence of 5 can make this a tricky proposition; they can’t afford to get Trapped at any point, as even a handful of S3 warriors can swiftly spike out a Trapped Dweller. Interestingly enough, this Defence reduction won’t affect them too much while fighting enemy heroes, most of which tend to hover around S4. Nor will their comparatively low Strength of 5 play too big a role in such duels, as they will still be Rending most heroes on a 4, which is pretty similar to what a Cave Troll can manage. Where it will inconvenience them is against basic warriors, especially those with D6. A Dweller is around half as likely to kill such a model with its basic Strikes as a Cave Troll, which is a pretty serious downside when your main role is killing chaff. It’s not as big a deal when facing D7 or D8 models (against whom both monsters will often want to Rend), nor against D5 and below troops who will be slaughtered fairly easily by either beast, but D6 is a painfully common stat and one that Goblins can otherwise struggle to deal with. Finally, the larger base size can be a hassle, particularly if you’re looking to squeeze them into the centre of your line.

 

Cave Drakes


                                                                        Elrond remembers this, and not fondly (Michael Martinez)

As discussed previously, the Cave Drake has a pretty terrifying damage output. Any model that loses a fight to it is likely to be in serious strife, with A4, S7 and Monstrous Charge combining to absolutely mince whatever it gets its teeth into. It’s also much better equipped to win fights in the first place, with more Attacks letting it lock in that critical six against a big group of enemies. It is the best equipped to Resist enemy magic, and its M8 makes it a little harder to avoid than a Cave Troll. The ability to bring along some Goblins and the addition of a single Might point are both very useful benefits, and if you plan your engagement right it can be Fearless for much of the game. However, its biggest drawcard is definitely its sheer resilience. A Cave Drake is more than 4 times as tough as a Dweller in the Dark or Cave Troll against most targets, and there is very little that can hope to bring one of these things down over the course of a game.


                                                                               This happens less often than you'd think (Worthpoint)

Of course, this laundry list of advantages is balanced by one sizeable disadvantage: it’s around twice the price of the other two models! Moreover, due to how charging works in MESBG, it’s still only likely to be able to get into close combat with two enemy models on a successful charge. That means that unless your opponent is brave enough to countercharge you, you’re still only going to be able to kill a couple of models a turn. If you’re just fighting chaff, that can cause you to fall behind in the damage race relative to a pair of Cave Trolls, for example. More worrying is the low Courage value, leaving you vulnerable to Terror or Break tests if not fighting near your Eggs. The large and oddly shaped base can also be a hassle, and will likely mean you have little control over who your Drake is fighting. That’s exacerbated in an odd way by the sheer killing power of the model making you less inclined to use Brutal Power Attacks. If a Dweller Hurls a model, it’s missing out on 3 S5 Strikes. If a Cave Drake does it, it’s possibly missing out on 10 S7 ones! It’s a weird weakness to have (“oh no, my model is just too good at killing things with its Strikes!”) but a genuine one I think. 

                                                                                                 The three options

All three models seem to come with some noticeable advantages and disadvantages. So when does it actually make sense to pick one over the others? For the purposes of this comparison, I’ll be looking at fielding two Cave Trolls v two Dwellers in the Dark v one Cave Drake, to keep things approximately equal in points. 

Cave Trolls are the beasties you take when you’re not too worried about any of their counters. Being highly vulnerable to Terror, magic and powerful heroes, you want to field them in an army that can either deal with those things some other way or that isn’t likely to face them in the first place. What I mean by the former situation is that the list has lots of tools to neutralise enemy heroes (Bat Swarms and Blackshield Shamans being perfect examples), a Shaman or the Balrog to counter Terror, and enough better targets that the Cave Troll won’t be too magically picked-on. The latter, meanwhile, just means that Cave Trolls are better in smaller games where the enemy is less likely to bring along any of their counters. Games where your opponent hasn’t brought along a big combat hero or spellcaster— or at least has only brought along one— are much more common at low points values, and Terror tends to pop up more in bigger games as well. If none of these counters are around, then the raw efficiency of a Cave Troll or two can smash gaping holes in the enemy with abandon.

    

      

                                                                    So, if these guys AREN'T who you're facing (Film Music Central)

Dwellers largely fill the gaps that a Cave Troll can’t, in that they aren’t bothered by any of the things that will stress out a Troll. They’re more tuned to fighting enemy heroes, they’re Resistant to Magic, and they’re ridiculously brave. As such, they tend to be easier to slot into a large army than the Trolls, although their reduced damage output will leave them less efficient in smaller games. Finally, their higher Move value and ability to recover lost Wounds makes them best placed on a flank, where they can kill some enemies, tank a few hits and then run off and recover against easy foes. However, their large base size and low Defence makes them desperately keen to avoid being Trapped, which tends to be easiest on the flanks! The solution is to outnumber the enemy by enough that you have a numerical advantage at the edges of the engagement, such that your Dwellers can dart in and out of combat a bit without risking enemy Traps. A large army also tends to take a while to lose, giving you lots of time to exploit the healing capacities of your monsters. Dwellers therefore fit into bigger armies where you are likely to outnumber the foe by a good margin, especially at larger points values.


                  Not sure you'll be outnumbering the enemy with four of them, but it's definitely a big game (Dramatic Katastases)

I’ve just said that Dwellers and Cave Trolls are complementary, in that one tends to excel where the other does poorly. That being the case, when should you bring along the Cave Drake? In short, when you really need things dead and when you really don’t want to die. Cave Drakes are the clear best option to take on enemy heroes, outperforming two Cave Trolls or Dwellers in almost all such matchups thanks to their horrendous damage output and astonishing resilience. Where the Drake tends to suffer is against hordes of enemies, against whom a pair of Cave Trolls will out-kill them almost 2:1. Drakes therefore end up feeling almost like an extreme version of the pair of Dwellers: they will both do fairly similar damage to enemy frontlines, are tooled towards taking on enemy heroes and have ways to deal with magic and Terror. Of the two options, the Dwellers tend to be harder to shutdown with spellcasters and are more reliably fearless, but the sheer durability and power of a Cave Drake makes them the superior choice against heroes. Both options are best off in larger forces and bigger games, although the Drake’s capacity to obliterate smaller enemy heroes does leave it well-suited to small games as well. Drakes don’t particularly care about being outnumbered, so they have the edge if you’re taking a Monster Mash style list as well.

    

                                                                                                                                                They'd fit in great here! 

So where do all of those comparisons leave us? I think that the clearest conclusion is not to take Cave Trolls in larger games if you can help it: they’re just so much more efficient when they don’t have to deal with the kind of sneaky tricks and scary heroes that are prevalent in those matches. Similarly, the Dwellers are likely to struggle to produce the damage output in smaller games, so should stick to the big leagues. And the Cave Drake seems to work in games of any size; turns out hitting really hard and being tough to kill are always good! However, they’re definitely going to be best if thrown up against a tough enemy hero they can rip apart, which is probably going to happen more often in bigger games.


                                                                                 Elrond's not a fan of this at all (Middle Earth Film's Wiki)

None of this is to say that a Dweller can’t be good at 500 points, or that a Cave Drake is useless if it runs up against a horde. But our job as players is to pick the right tool for the matchups we expect, and some of those matchups are more likely at higher or lower points. The only definite rule in these matters is to bring at least one monster; after all, what’s the point of playing Moria without a big stompy thing?

I hope you enjoyed this exploration of the three “little” Moria monsters. Next week I’ll be continuing the discussion by turning to their big, army defining brothers. As ever, if you have any thoughts on the monsters available to Moria, I’d love to hear them either here or on Facebook.

Until next time, may your monsters always have easy targets to crunch!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

  1. Not questioning the math, but help me out here: you mentioned that the Cave Drake is 4x as tough as a Cave Troll or Dweller . . . by my tally, the Cave Drake is F6 (same as a Cave Troll), has 4-5 Attacks (+1 or +2 over a Cave Troll) with 1 Might (+1 over a Cave Troll), is D7 (+1 over a Cave Troll), has 6 Wounds (+3 over a Cave Troll), and 1 Fate (+1 over a Cave Troll). Is the 4x factoring in twice as healthy, is less likely to lose, is potentially harder to wound, and has Might/Fate to modify dueling rolls/save wounds? If so, I'd buy that he's 4x as resilient as one Cave Troll . . . but the proper comparison is two Cave Trolls.

    When you look at two Cave Trolls - potentially being in two different places - you're less concerned about enemy magic (as he'd need two casters to stop them both from rampaging in a turn), you're less concerned about archery (because they'd have to split focus as opposed to concentrating fire), and you're less concerned about Terror (don't under-estimate the value of Troll Chains, which are the second highest Strength throwing weapon in the game). From experience fighting FOUR Cave Trolls, once you have more than one, you're kind of concerned. I don't run Cave Trolls anymore (#TeamBalrog #NoPointsLeft), but I'm never afraid of just one (as you pointed out) - I AM afraid of 2+ Cave Trolls because you can try to shoot one and you can try to use magic against another, but there's something else that's getting through because you bought those Trolls.

    While the Cave Drake is, theoretically, better against archery/magic/Terror, this isn't necessarily true: because of how Strength/Defense work in this game (as opposed to other GW systems), an increase in Strength/Defense might not actually do anything. Elf bows don't care if you're D6/7 - and while you'd expect the S7 on a Cave Drake to make him better at killing things, the Burly S6 you get on the Cave Troll means that against even-Defense targets, you actually have a better chance of wounding with the Trolls than you do the Cave Drakes. Cave Drakes are better at resisting magical attacks, but 3 Will evaporates pretty quickly when you get hit with 2+ magical attacks (either on successive turns from one caster or in a single turn from several casters) - and while Resistant to Magic means you'll always have a chance at resisting, you aren't likely to get a 4+ every time (and most spells that are actually cast will get a 4+ as their high roll). Terror is pretty easily handled if you're by your nest (Fearless), but once you're past it, being C4 isn't THAT much better than C3 (and if you're needing your Will to resist magical attacks, you can't rely on it to charge).

    Personally, I'd prefer two moving monsters instead of one - but if you're not married to having one of the big monsters, I don't see why you wouldn't try to field a Cave Drake with 2 Cave Trolls . . . seems like you'd give your opponent a pretty rough day with just over 300 points spent on them. :)

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    1. Thanks for the comment! The 4x as tough thing was very back-of-the-envelope kinda maths: he's got twice as many Wounds and will be twice as resilient against most archery and heroes. The extra Attacks, Fate and Might all increase this further, while the fact that D7 doesn't help against S3 pulls it back a bit. Personally, I'm most worried about S4 with monsters because that's what the heroes tend to have, so being more than 4x as tough against that is a pretty big deal. And you're certainly right that the best comparison is to 2 Cave Trolls, which I hope came through clearly later on in the comparison section. But being twice as hard to kill as both of them put together is still a huge advantage, especially because your damage output doesn't reduce until you get to 0 Wounds (instead of halving when you lose a Troll). Cave Drakes only die in fairly unusual games, while even a pair of Trolls or Dwellers will get slaughtered if a big hero has enough time to hunt them down.

      I totally agree with you on the benefit of having two monsters instead of one, it's a big deal. I'm not quite sure I agree that one Cave Troll will be Wounding more stuff than a Cave Drake (S6 Burly > S7, but 3 Strikes<10 Strikes, which the Drake will get on a lot of turns), but having two monsters means you're in two fights, and thus killing more models most games. I'm not sure I agree with all of your conclusions abut the benefits though. Your enemy doesn't HAVE to split fire, and in fact they shouldn't if they can avoid it. And each of the Trolls is at least twice as easy to kill as a Cave Drake, and probably much harder than that, so I think it's hard to say they're less vulnerable to archery.

      Spreading out your monster points does definitely make them a lot less vulnerable to magic, I do agree with that. I think that the 3 Will and Resistant probably wins out on balance though, because while 3 Will does melt fast if you're facing multiple casters, multiple casters are perfectly happy to pick on multiple Cave Trolls as well. If you're facing Angmar, for example, then each Troll will be Paralysed turn one of combat and be dead or mostly out of the game, while at least the Drake has some chance of Resisting (and not an awful chance with the Might point as well!). I think you're probably right that Terror isn't much easier for the Drake than the Trolls, although I would note that if you're fielding multiple Drakes you get multiple egg bubbles that by my reading affect all of the Drakes. Still, the Drakes have multiple (not especially reliable) ways to deal with Terror, while the Trolls have none other trying to hit stuff with ranged attacks. Speaking of which, I confess that I have been sleeping on the Troll Chain; some quick maths says you probably only need to get the charge 3 times against most enemies to pay for the upgrade, and that's probably not too unlikely. It's still definitely a supplementary benefit in my eyes though, and if all you get to do on a turn is use your chain because you failed a Terror test, it's probably still a bad turn. Incidentally, can a model that fails its Terror test still Throw Stones? I can't see anything saying they wouldn't be able to, but I guess they might not have been able to last edition when you had to declare you were Stooping.

      In saying all that, I totally agree that having two monsters is a big selling point over one. It opens up so many great options, and adds to your efficiency against chaff. But I do think you pay for that efficiency with increased vulnerability, particularly to heroes and magic. I've seen a lot of heroes one-round Cave Trolls, but I've only ever seen that once against a Cave Drake (and honestly, a charging Dain + Dwalin combo is going to flatten pretty much anything).

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    2. The comparison of 1 Drake : 2 Trolls did come through - hence why I was wondering if the 4x was really a fair comparison to make. :) I've killed plenty of Cave Trolls with archery, completely removed them from a fight with magic, and gronked them with heroes (I play a lot of Lothlorien). That being said, whenever I focus on shooting Cave Trolls with archery, there are Goblins overrunning my position. Whenever I focus on neutralizing Cave Trolls with magic, there's some nastier monster that's tearing through my ranks. Whenever I have a hero focus on killing a Troll, there's invariably a horde of guys (or one big nasty) that's completely unchecked. Personally, I think paying 160-170 points for a pair of Cave Trolls that don't have to be my big event and buying time for the rest of my army is worth it. That said, I've never used a Drake, never had to fight a Drake - maybe having it in one place wouldn't be horrible (but then again, I almost always have an Unlimited Caster or several Ringwraiths in my armies, so I'm not sure I'd be that afraid of it either).

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    3. Look, you're probably right, but I will defend it slightly by saying that your damage output doesn't go down until you hit 0 Wounds, so the Trolls will have their damage output weakened 4x earlier than the Cave Drake will. But it's definitely still twice the defensive efficiency not 4x.

      I definitely agree that the Cave Trolls bring a lot, especially in their capacity to just be supporting models for the big monsters or the Goblin hordes. But a Drake will have just as many Goblins alongside it as the Trolls will (well, really it will have 2-4 more than they will thanks to upgrades), so an enemy that focusses on it will be even more overwhelmed. It doesn't get to be in two places at once, which is a big deal, but then again you're normally going to lose one Troll relatively early on, at which point you only have one monster anyway. The Drake on the other hand is likely to stick around all game in almost all matchups, which is a benefit all of its own.

      In regards to magic, I do think that it can be annoying for a Cave Drake. However, let's look at a matchup against Lothlorien, for example. Galadriel can Immobilise you once a turn, but there's probably at least a 50% chance of failure between failures to cast, your free die to Resist, and your other three Will. That means that you're only neutralised half the time, and are killing every other turn. So your opponent's 130-point model is successfully halving the effectiveness of your 150-point model. That seems like a Moria advantage to my mind. To be sure, the maths for the Cave Trolls is pretty similar, but they have the difficulty of Galadriel being able to guarantee that her casts won't be Resisted, so whichever is most threatening will always be held up, as opposed to sometimes disrupting the Drake. They're also much worse in the "two Ringwraiths" matchup than the Drake, who at least has some chance to fight off the magical barrage. It's pretty marginal either way, but I gave the edge to the Drake because it still scares me as an Angmar player, while two Trolls are just two perfect Paralyse targets.

      In saying all of that, I love the Cave Trolls too, and I think they have lots of good matchups. I just think that those matchups get a bit rarer the bigger the points value, because all it takes is one big hero to chop up several Cave Trolls annoyingly fast. Elrond, for example, will take them both out in about five turns if he can catch them, while he'll take a ridiculous number against the Drake. So the Trolls get worse the more likely you are to face someone like Elrond, at least to my mind

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    4. Your analysis of the 3 "little monsters" from Moria is fantastic. I'm an avid Cave Drake player and I can tell you that they will outperform nearly every other monster in the game in most games. Depending on the points, I will typically play them in pairs or with the Balrog. I played in a 5 round, 895 point tournament a few weeks ago and had The Balrog, a Cave Drake, Groblog, a Blackshield Shaman and a small goblin horde. I got 3rd with that list out of 24 players. I had 3 major wins, 1 minor win and 1 major loss. The Cave Drake was my MVP in 4 out of 5 games. My Drake almost single-handedly got me 3 of the 4 wins I had.

      Game 1: It got 4 wounds on an IH chariot manned by Dwalin, Balin, Kili and Fili before it went down. I managed to break the chariot on the next turn with my Balrog. (This is the only game it died out of 5 and it took a 500 points IH chariot to kill it).
      Game 2: It took out about 10 IH dwarves, including 3 goat riders and a Captain.
      Game 3: It killed 3 Uruk-hai in one fight, then 3 more in a 2nd fight from a heroic combat on the last turn of the game to take a central objective and get me a Minor Victory. It had already killed about 10 Uruk-hai warriors/scouts before that thru 4 turns of combat.
      Game 4: It got me the only points I could get in a terrible match-up against 3 Ring Wraiths and a ton of Black Númenórean's where my opponent rolled more 6's than I've ever seen in my life.
      Game 5: It killed over a dozen Warriors and Knights of Minas Tirith, along with Baragon on the last turn of the game to get me a Major Victory.

      The most kills I've ever got with a Drake in a game was in an escalation tournament back in March this year. (150 > 300 > 500 > 750). In the 750 round. I killed 19 GT Goblins with 1 Drake. I got 8 in one turn with 1 'nearly perfect' hurl. What's crazy is I killed another dozen with a Dweller in the Dark and ended up killing around 43 goblins in total, but I still missed breaking him by 2 Goblins. GT is bananas.

      I love Cave Drakes.

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